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Old 10-18-2013, 01:09 PM  
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House Republicans Are Now Turning On Ted Cruz

“I could have written this story from day one. If you follow the Cruz plan, you end up exactly where we are,” Rep. Adam Kinzinger said.

WASHINGTON — While Sen. Ted Cruz tries to spin the 16-day government shutdown as a moral victory for him and his conservative followers, a seething, bitter anger has been building among the House Republicans who followed him into the fight.

GOP lawmakers had hoped to avoid a shutdown and use the funding fight to squeeze some concessions from Democrats on the budget. But that was until Cruz launched his quixotic campaign to defund Obamacare — rallying the conference’s tea party hardliners and forcing Speaker John Boehner and other leaders along for the ride. Not only did Cruz’s crusade badly damage public perceptions of Congressional Republicans, it left them with a worse deal than they likely would have gotten if they had never shut down the government.

“I don’t think there’s any question [it’s worse]. I could have written this story from day one. If you follow the Cruz plan, you end up exactly where we are,” Republican Rep. Adam Kinzinger told BuzzFeed. “I think it’s obvious that we had a really grown up plan on how to deal with this, we had some in our party who rejected that, and we had to go along with [the Cruz] plan.”

Asked if unhappiness with Cruz is widespread in the conference, Kizinger said, “Sure yeah, absolutely. I think we all feel the same.”

New York Rep. Peter King has long been one of Cruz’s loudest critics since the push to defund Obamacare began (and even before that), and he left the Republican conference Wednesday morning with an I-told-you-so attitude.
“I think it’s important for Republican leaders around the country to speak out against him and neutralize him,” King said of Cruz. “Otherwise he’s going to start the same nonsense again in December or January. He’s the guy that caused this, he’s the guy who is a fraud because he never had a strategy to begin with. And if we let him do it again, it’s our fault.”

Others said House Republicans should shoulder some of the blame for following Cruz in the first place.

“Well, this has been a productive exercise hasn’t it?” snarked another Republican congressman. “We can blame Ted Cruz, and yeah, he convinced a lot of people that they were somehow not really conservatives if we didn’t take this route, and that’s ridiculous. But at the end of day, we played along. So shame on us.”

Cruz still holds considerable sway among House conservatives, who rallied around his cause.

But even within the ranks of the conference’s most ideologically pure, there’s frustration with the path Cruz led them down.

“You can’t just pull the pin on the grenade, roll it in the tent, and walk away,” one conservative Republican said. “There’s real frustration” within the House Republican conference, the lawmaker added.

Asked if it was a mistake to make the shutdown and debt limit about defunding Obamacare rather than spending and debt, Rep. Thomas Massie tersely said, “I’ve got no comment on that.”

Rep. Ron DeSantis, however, acknowledged that making defunding Obamacare the primary rallying cry obscured more realistic goals, including eliminating an employee subsidy for lawmakers and their staff and delaying the individual mandate for one year.

“We didn’t articulate that well. It got kind of lost in the initial defund push,” DeSantis said Wednesday.

Republican Rep. Reid Ribble of Wisconsin, without calling out Cruz specifically, said that part of the issue leading up to the shutdown was the fact that House and Senate Republicans were not on the same page and divisions spilled out into the open.

“If we as conservatives want to create a bicameral strategy together — and not have one side pushing the other side, if you look at how the House Republicans have voted vs. how the Senate Republicans have voted, it’s dysfunctional. No one has sat down and said, ‘What does the conservative movement in the 21st century look like?’ And hopefully the lesson learned here, is that that will be answered soon.”

After the Senate deal was announced, Republicans had virtually nothing to show at the end of the two-week shutdown. Cruz was swarmed by reporters in the Capitol who asked if the GOP civil war that had broken out had been worth it when in the end very little had changed, except for Republican poll numbers which have tanked considerably.

“We have seen a remarkable thing happen. Months ago, when the effort to defund Obamacare began, official Washington scoffed. They scoffed that the American people would rise up,” Cruz said. “We saw the House of Representatives take a courageous stand listening to the American people, that everyone in official Washington, just weeks earlier, said would never happen. That was a remarkable victory to see the House engage in a profile of courage.”

If there was any blame to go around, Cruz said, it belonged to Senate Republicans. Cruz had launched into a 21-hour filibuster a few weeks ago, urging his colleagues to vote against a procedural vote.
“Unfortunately, the Senate chose not to follow the House. And in particular, we saw real division among Senate Republicans,” he said. “That was unfortunate. I would point out that had Senate Republicans united, and supported House Republicans, the outcome of this, I believe, would’ve been very, very different. I wish that had happened, but it did not.”

Republicans were nervous that Cruz would employ a filibuster-esque tactic to delay passage of the deal in the Senate. But Cruz relented, saying he understood it would not effect the outcome in this case. Cruz said that he would continue to fight against Obamacare, but did not hint explicitly how he intends to do that.

A House GOP aide said that a lot of members have come away from the shutdown experience, cognizant that their strategy needs to improve moving forward.

“You certainly have to look at whether or not we should chase ideas or objectives that you just can’t win and if you do so what expense,” the aide said. “I don’t think many people are going to take [Cruz] very seriously if this is a tactic he wants to use moving forward.”
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Old 10-19-2013, 12:01 PM   #46
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Itused to be that Bush could get things passed because republicans could get enough moderate democrats to vote with them

Now there are no moderate democrats, only moderate republicans who will acquiesce to the democrats

It's democrats plus the begrudging GOP old guard against the conservative base. It's a shame they were able to drive this wedge in.
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Old 10-19-2013, 12:01 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
Bah. What did I get wrong? Virtually nothing. Sure, we didn't get the delay in the individual mandate like I had hoped. That's still very much in the air. Obama might have to unsheath that sword and unilaterally hand it over to Cruz just on the weight of the failure of the Obamacare system. That whole thing is still in play.

No. I got this shit right. It played out nearly exactly like I thought and said it would. And continues to. The backlash against Obamacare is just beginning. The debt ceiling and government funding battle is just pushed back to February. The only thing that Obama has won is the opportunity for the Republicans to regroup while the hot spotlight on Obamacare becomes the drumbeat issue during this next period.

You guys are clueless if you don't see the embarrassment of political riches that the Tea Party won out of this whole ordeal. You can go ahead and keep your slanted polls and leftist media write-ups. They mean nothing.
You said this strategy would cause a delay in the Obamacare mandate. You said it would result in major concesdions, in any concessions, and that this was smart politics. The result is they got nothing out of it. The GOP is now more unpopular than any party ever polled, across all polls 70-80% of independent voters disagree with what they did, and worst of all, despite an absolutely disastrous start Obamacare actually got more popular.

Now, you can ignore all the polls if you want, and you can pretend you didn't say all the things you said, and that's fine with me. But you've got you're head up your ass and you know it.
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Old 10-19-2013, 12:03 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cochise View Post
Itused to be that Bush could get things passed because republicans could get enough moderate democrats to vote with them

Now there are no moderate democrats, only moderate republicans who will acquiesce to the democrats

It's democrats plus the begrudging GOP old guard against the conservative base. It's a shame they were able to drive this wedge in.
Moderate Republicans? Name one
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Old 10-19-2013, 12:08 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Dave Lane View Post
Moderate Republicans? Name one
This whole coalition of the old guard dinosaurs in the GOP who always manage to lose these fights.
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Old 10-19-2013, 12:11 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by FD View Post
You said this strategy would cause a delay in the Obamacare mandate.
And it eventually will.

Quote:
You said it would result in major concesdions, in any concessions, and that this was smart politics.
You're so dishonest. I actually didn't say any of this, you're reaching. I never used the words "major concessions," even once. In fact, I ALWAYS said that this wasn't about the Tea Party vs. Obama, but about the Tea Party vs. The Republican establishment.


Quote:
The result is they got nothing out of it. The GOP is now more unpopular than any party ever polled, across all polls 70-80% of independent voters disagree with what they did, and worst of all, despite an absolutely disastrous start Obamacare actually got more popular.
A short term nothing-burger.


Quote:
Now, you can ignore all the polls if you want, and you can pretend you didn't say all the things you said, and that's fine with me. But you've got you're head up your ass and you know it.
What things did I say you dishonest douche? Bring them. You're reaching and ultimately have nothing.

We just won a huge battle within the Republican party. Yes, on the surface, it looks like a loss, but as this whole thing shakes out, people will start to recognize just what and how much we got.
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Old 10-19-2013, 12:28 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
And it eventually will.



You're so dishonest. I actually didn't say any of this, you're reaching. I never used the words "major concessions," even once. In fact, I ALWAYS said that this wasn't about the Tea Party vs. Obama, but about the Tea Party vs. The Republican establishment.




A short term nothing-burger.




What things did I say you dishonest douche? Bring them. You're reaching and ultimately have nothing.

We just won a huge battle within the Republican party. Yes, on the surface, it looks like a loss, but as this whole thing shakes out, people will start to recognize just what and how much we got.
I don't care enough to go searching around, some others have quoted some posts already. You know what you said.

But like I said, if you want to stick your head up your ass, just go ahead and do it.
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Old 10-19-2013, 12:30 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by FD View Post
I don't care enough to go searching around, some others have quoted some posts already. You know what you said.

But like I said, if you want to stick your head up your ass, just go ahead and do it.
I didn't think you guys had anything. There's not much for you to pick over. I got most of it right, and the stuff I got wrong is still up in the air.
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Old 10-19-2013, 12:30 PM   #53
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Yes, on the surface, it looks like a loss, but as this whole thing shakes out, people will start to recognize just what and how much we got.
Enlighten us ole wise one. What and how much did you get?
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Old 10-19-2013, 12:43 PM   #54
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Enlighten us ole wise one. What and how much did you get?
Got things to do right now... I'll post a list tonight...
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Old 10-19-2013, 01:20 PM   #55
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0
Here's a complete list of the things you got right, to save you time and all.
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High Tech is Sorcery and the people who are really powerful are literally telling people to commit crimes using the psychic interspace created by the WWW and Wireless. They are controlling peoples actions like drones . The two things are deeply intertwined. The more man's brain interfaces with machines the creepier it gets. They use brains separate from a human body in a supercomputer and you have The Image of the Beast. The military has been doing this since the 50s
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Old 10-19-2013, 01:21 PM   #56
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Bah. What did I get wrong? Virtually nothing. Sure, we didn't get the delay in the individual mandate like I had hoped. That's still very much in the air. Obama might have to unsheath that sword and unilaterally hand it over to Cruz just on the weight of the failure of the Obamacare system. That whole thing is still in play.
Uh, no he won't. This isn't just unlikely, it has ZERO chance of EVER happening, under any circumstances while Obama is president.

If Obamacare still has implementation problems next summer, or even if it is unpopular in the spring of 2015, he will never, ever, ever sign off on defunding it, getting rid of the individual mandate, none of that. Even if it means a default, he'll choose the default.

Everyone knows this. Everyone who was sane knew this a couple months ago. There is one, and only one way to repeal Obamacare, and that is sweeping the board in 2016.
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Old 10-19-2013, 01:26 PM   #57
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Cruz Warns Senate GOP: ‘Consequences’ for Supporting ‘Lousy Deal’

Ted Cruz still thinks that if the Senate GOP would have hung tough and stuck to the demand to defund or delay Obamacare, then Obama eventually would have caved. He now says he'll support the effort to primary Republicans who didn't go along with his so-called "plan".

Ted Cruz is either the biggest moron in congress, or he's a secret double-agent working for team blue. He's probably just that stupid, but his actions and future plans are so obviously and egregiously beneficial to the Democrats, that it makes you wonder who he's working for.
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Old 10-19-2013, 02:50 PM   #58
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It's been a good week for the Onion.


Republicans Give In Right Before Obamacare Would Have Been Repealed
• Oct 17, 2013



WASHINGTON—After Republican lawmakers reached a last-minute agreement Wednesday night to end the government shutdown and raise the debt ceiling, sources confirmed today that the GOP yielded its fight against Obamacare mere moments before the president was about to cave and repeal the entire law.

“Whew! That was a close one,” President Obama told reporters, admitting that literally seconds before he would have put pen to paper on an executive order to fully defund and eliminate the Affordable Care Act, he received a phone call informing him that House Speaker John Boehner had agreed to back down from the shutdown stalemate.

“The GOP really had our backs up against the wall on this one, and to be honest I was definitely about to blink first. I sure as hell didn’t want to be the president who oversaw the first default in our country’s history, and I thought the Republicans knew that. If they would have just held out a little longer—I’m talking two, three seconds—they would have gotten everything they wanted. They seriously held all the cards here.”

The president said that if House Republicans threaten to use the same tactics with the debt ceiling this February, he’ll probably just repeal Obamacare immediately.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/rep...would-h,34246/

Of course it's a little difficult to distinguish from some of the posts in this forum.
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Old 10-19-2013, 03:01 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cochise View Post
Itused to be that Bush could get things passed because republicans could get enough moderate democrats to vote with them

Now there are no moderate democrats, only moderate republicans who will acquiesce to the democrats

It's democrats plus the begrudging GOP old guard against the conservative base. It's a shame they were able to drive this wedge in.
Wut?
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Old 10-19-2013, 03:04 PM   #60
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This whole coalition of the old guard dinosaurs in the GOP who always manage to lose these fights.
Which fights? Over not paying bills for which they authorized spending (debt ceiling issue)? Over not getting the ACA repealed?

They lose these fights because they are stupid fights that they had zero chance of winning in the first place.
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