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Old 10-28-2013, 08:23 AM  
HonestChieffan HonestChieffan is offline
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Obamacare hitting middle class hard

http://touch.latimes.com/#section/-1.../p2p-77942344/

Best liberal wake up line ever ...." I was all for ObamaCare until I realized I was paying for it"
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Old 10-28-2013, 11:49 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Race Card native View Post
Yes, and now compare what we pay versus what Japan and France pay.
It doesn't matter what anyone pays. You made separate statements about cost and effectiveness. As far as I'm concerned, your reluctance to be specific about "worst outcomes" and the ease with which I was able to find out that we have some of the very best outcomes strongly suggests that you don't know what you're talking about. Until I see something more convincing from you than handwaving and poor economic analysis, I plan on dismissing your posts as nonsense.
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Old 10-28-2013, 11:50 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Race Card native View Post
A good portion of liberals have disagreed with Obamacare since it was proposed.

Build more strawmen please.
Not the ones controlling your party.
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Old 10-28-2013, 12:08 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
What's your take on Walmart's ability to drive the price of it's suppliers down? Take Walmart's strong consumer position and transform it into an overwhelming stranglehold and you'll approximate the control that a US single payer system will have on prices. That's the difference between economies of scale and defacto price fixing.
Yeah! But the Walmart model is BAD! It pushes smaller, aka higher priced local shops out of business. Plus, everyone is entitled to a comfortable living wage and they don't pay that. Of course what gets ignored is that WM makes more goods affordable for the lower incomes. Ey'thing the Left advocates drives the costs up--even in healthcare. Then when we get the worst outcomes in price, they advocate more of the same until they get to take over a whole market and put us under govt control.
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Old 10-28-2013, 01:39 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
What's your take on Walmart's ability to drive the price of it's suppliers down? Take Walmart's strong consumer position and transform it into an overwhelming stranglehold and you'll approximate the control that a US single payer system will have on prices. That's the difference between economies of scale and defacto price fixing.
So it's ok for WalMart to have buying power but not the government? Brilliant patty.
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Old 10-28-2013, 01:43 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
It doesn't matter what anyone pays. You made separate statements about cost and effectiveness. As far as I'm concerned, your reluctance to be specific about "worst outcomes" and the ease with which I was able to find out that we have some of the very best outcomes strongly suggests that you don't know what you're talking about. Until I see something more convincing from you than handwaving and poor economic analysis, I plan on dismissing your posts as nonsense.
It does matter what someone pays. If we have similar outcomes as other developed nations, yet pay 2-4 times more for those same outcomes (and cancer survival doesn't cover the entire spectrum. nice cherry pick btw) then that is a problem.

Ignoring how much we pay relative to other developed nations is poor economic analysis.
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Old 10-28-2013, 01:49 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Race Card native View Post
So it's ok for WalMart to have buying power but not the government? Brilliant patty.
I see that you didn't bother to answer my question. Not too surprising.

It's certainly OK for WalMart to have buying power. They don't have monopolistic dominance the way the government would.
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Old 10-28-2013, 01:52 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Race Card native View Post
It does matter what someone pays. If we have similar outcomes as other developed nations, yet pay 2-4 times more for those same outcomes (and cancer survival doesn't cover the entire spectrum. nice cherry pick btw) then that is a problem.

Ignoring how much we pay relative to other developed nations is poor economic analysis.
No, it doesn't matter for the purpose of the argument you were making. You said we BOTH pay more AND get some of the worst outcomes. If you've watched any TV lately, you should be able to tell the difference between and and or. Face it, your argument was garbage. You were trying to bullshit people and you got called on it.
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Old 10-28-2013, 02:12 PM   #38
trndobrd trndobrd is offline
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Originally Posted by Race Card native View Post
Incorrect on a couple fronts. Economies of scale are not price control. Read up on what economies of scale actually means.

Medicare and Medicaid spending is $950 Billion and accounts for 36% of all national health expenditures and 6.5% of US GDP.

When should we expect to see the economies of scale from the two programs that already control more than a third of medical expenditures?
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Old 10-28-2013, 03:13 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
I see that you didn't bother to answer my question. Not too surprising.

It's certainly OK for WalMart to have buying power. They don't have monopolistic dominance the way the government would.
Spin away. WalMart is the largest retailer in the US by quite a bit and you obviously have no idea of how they assert their buying power.
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Old 10-28-2013, 03:15 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
No, it doesn't matter for the purpose of the argument you were making. You said we BOTH pay more AND get some of the worst outcomes. If you've watched any TV lately, you should be able to tell the difference between and and or. Face it, your argument was garbage. You were trying to bullshit people and you got called on it.
I guess I must have missed the memo that cancer survival rates are the lone metric for assessing health care outcomes.
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Old 10-28-2013, 03:16 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Race Card native View Post
Spin away. WalMart is the largest retailer in the US by quite a bit and you obviously have no idea of how they assert their buying power.
You've done nothing but fail in this thread. But keep playing the and "spin away" cards if it makes you feel better. I don't think you're fooling anyone.
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Old 10-28-2013, 03:18 PM   #42
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I guess I must have missed the memo that cancer survival rates are the lone metric for assessing health care outcomes.
No one is suggesting they are. But since you refuse to explain exactly what you mean when you say that US outcomes are bad, the US success in that area makes you look like a fool anyway. Keep digging and don't forget to use the smilies!
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Old 10-28-2013, 03:18 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by trndobrd View Post
Medicare and Medicaid spending is $950 Billion and accounts for 36% of all national health expenditures and 6.5% of US GDP.

When should we expect to see the economies of scale from the two programs that already control more than a third of medical expenditures?
They're already more efficient than private insurers and that's without the ability to negotiate on drug prices.
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Old 10-28-2013, 03:22 PM   #44
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Since you guys are ignoring shit that has been gone over and over and over

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Old 10-28-2013, 03:26 PM   #45
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You probably didn't want to admit that your "bad outcomes" case was based almost entirely on measures like life expectancy (when Prison Bitch specifically asked about that) since the relationship between health care and life expectancy is so cloudy. When you drill down to the outcome of specific treatments, the picture is more clear and less supportive of your wild claims.
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