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Old 10-28-2013, 08:23 AM  
HonestChieffan HonestChieffan is offline
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Obamacare hitting middle class hard

http://touch.latimes.com/#section/-1.../p2p-77942344/

Best liberal wake up line ever ...." I was all for ObamaCare until I realized I was paying for it"
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Old 10-28-2013, 03:30 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
You probably didn't want to admit that your "bad outcomes" case was based almost entirely on measures like life expectancy (when Prison Bitch specifically asked about that) since the relationship between health care and life expectancy is so cloudy. When you drill down to the outcome of specific treatments, the picture is more clear and less supportive of your wild claims.
Yes, we know you want to continue to throw tremendous sums of money down a hole so the health care sector can continue to **** the American public. Clearly the status quo is sustainable in your eyes (it's not btw).
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Originally Posted by Iowanian View Post
I'm just a little pussy from Iowa
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Old 10-28-2013, 03:33 PM   #47
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Here's another more thorough look at it.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iowanian View Post
I'm just a little pussy from Iowa
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KC native Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.KC native Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.KC native Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.KC native Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.KC native Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.KC native Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.KC native Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.KC native Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.KC native Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.KC native Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.KC native Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.
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Old 10-28-2013, 03:42 PM   #48
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Still riding the life expectancy and mortality horse? That's a pretty poor measure of merit, but it's apparently all you've got. No wonder you were hesitant to be specific. Pretty pictures though.
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Old 10-28-2013, 03:44 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Race Card native View Post
They're already more efficient than private insurers and that's without the ability to negotiate on drug prices.
Based on what metric?
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Old 10-28-2013, 03:53 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Still riding the life expectancy and mortality horse? That's a pretty poor measure of merit, but it's apparently all you've got. No wonder you were hesitant to be specific. Pretty pictures though.
Hate to jump in mid stream, but that data is far from "riding the life expectancy and mortality horse." In fact, one of the main pieces of data that he points out is the percentage of primary care providers vs. specialist. That is one of the biggest problems with our system. That, and the fact that our population is just plain stupid and irresponsible about their own health by and large. It amazes me every morning when I drive by McDonalds and see 10 vehicles or more getting "breakfast" there. And it goes on all day long.

No matter how you view socialized medicine, the problem with America is the slobs living here.
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Old 10-28-2013, 03:53 PM   #51
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How are any of those charts, or more specifically the ACA, going to drive down our out of control healthcare spending?
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Old 10-28-2013, 03:55 PM   #52
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What are income, wealth, and property taxes in France ? Tell me again how cheap their healthcare is?
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Old 10-28-2013, 04:09 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tooge View Post
Hate to jump in mid stream, but that data is far from "riding the life expectancy and mortality horse." In fact, one of the main pieces of data that he points out is the percentage of primary care providers vs. specialist. That is one of the biggest problems with our system. That, and the fact that our population is just plain stupid and irresponsible about their own health by and large. It amazes me every morning when I drive by McDonalds and see 10 vehicles or more getting "breakfast" there. And it goes on all day long.

No matter how you view socialized medicine, the problem with America is the slobs living here.
I have no problem with you jumping in mid-stream. But by doing so, you appear to have missed the crux of the disagreement. His original claim was a blanket claim about the US having some of the worst health care outcomes in the developed world. When asked to explain what he meant by that, he initially refused. When he was confronted with the fact that the US ranks very well with outcomes of treatments for some specific diseases like breast cancer (1st in the world), he finally got around to cutting and pasting a couple of graphics that use life expectancy as a measure of merit.

I pointed out that life expectancy isn't necessarily the best measure of merit for our health care system since it's impacted by non-health care factors like the irresponsible health choices made by our people that you mention. It's certainly impacted by health care, but it's not directly impacted in the way that specific treatment outcomes are.

In some cases, our superior access to health care may even contribute to a shorter life expectancy. For example, if our technology enables us to save a severely premature infant from almost certain late term miscarriage, there's a good chance that that infant won't have the same life expectancy that the average child born in a lower tech maternity hospital in some other developed country.
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Old 10-28-2013, 04:10 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
What are income, wealth, and property taxes in France ? Tell me again how cheap their healthcare is?
Excellent question for the cost side of Race Card's argument.
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Old 10-28-2013, 04:37 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Race Card native View Post
Yes, we know you want to continue to throw tremendous sums of money down a hole so the health care sector can continue to **** the American public. Clearly the status quo is sustainable in your eyes (it's not btw).
We all know the system is broken dude.
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Old 10-28-2013, 04:47 PM   #56
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There was an article in the wsj some time ago arguing that a significant chunk of life expectancy differences btw America and other industrialized nations was auto fatalities. Standardizing those will wash away at least a chunk of it.


Also there's the same old same old about minorities struggling in these metrics but that's not an argument of quality of course, but of delivery. That's even ignoring personal lifestyle choices anyway (which would explain a ton).
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Old 10-28-2013, 04:47 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blake5676 View Post
How are any of those charts, or more specifically the ACA, going to drive down our out of control healthcare spending?
ACA won't drive down costs. It is a hand out to insurers and hospitals.
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Originally Posted by Iowanian View Post
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Old 10-28-2013, 05:52 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
What are income, wealth, and property taxes in France ? Tell me again how cheap their healthcare is?
You can google that for yourself you lazy piece of shit.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iowanian View Post
I'm just a little pussy from Iowa
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KC native Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.KC native Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.KC native Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.KC native Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.KC native Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.KC native Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.KC native Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.KC native Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.KC native Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.KC native Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.KC native Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.
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Old 10-28-2013, 05:56 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Race Card native View Post
You can google that for yourself you lazy piece of shit.
You think I don't know?
You think I expect you do?

You are a buffoon and a loudmouth little twit. No one asks a question of you expecting you to actually know anything. Please carry on explaing how the evils of HC are fixed by Obama.
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Old 10-28-2013, 06:09 PM   #60
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Every time shitball is asked to support his opinions he just screams insults back. It's hilarious watching the tool lash out.
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