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Old 10-28-2013, 08:42 AM  
petegz28 petegz28 is online now
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Obamacare using "deductibles" to prey on the middle class

So looking at plans pre and post Obamacare, reading stories and such here was I see it coming down too. Obamacare is touting "you may pay more but you will have a smaller deductible".

That there is what you call Used Car Salesman talk. If you are generally a healthy person a low deductible is actually costing you more in premiums.

Example:

For coverage for 1 person you now pay $210 a month for an HSA eligible plan with Humana that has a $5000 deductible.

Prior to Obamacare you could get the same plan only with a $6500 deductible for $110 a month.

So that's $100 a month more or $1200 a year more and for what?

I tend to always carry high deductibles because I am not chronically ill and visit the doctor very little. I just want coverage in case I have a heart attack or get in a car accident.

This is but 1 example and if you think $100 month extra for something you most likely won't benefit from won't hurt this economy then you are fooling yourself.
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Old 10-28-2013, 11:08 AM   #16
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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IMF page with the words "Global Governance" in a quarterly from 2007.

Sounds like another entangling alliance to create global interdependence. Afterall the article bemoans a fragmented system in the world with players looking after their own interests. Awe! Tsk! Tsk!
The lasting effect, however, is that we have inherited a system that is fragmented and that relies heavily, perhaps too heavily, on market forces, competition, and ad hoc public reactions to try to channel energies and allocate resources.

Ugh! How internationally socialist this part is:
The problems and the challenges of the 21st century—absorbing demographic change, reducing poverty, expanding the provision of safe and clean energy without aggravating climate change, alleviating health risks, and many others—require far more coordination than is possible within such a system. Each of these challenges, even if addressed locally or nationally, has the potential to affect the lives of people everywhere. Specialized technical expertise by itself is unlikely to be fully effective if it is not guided by a global and holistic vision.

The vacuum represented by the lack of a comprehensive system of oversight has been filled in part by a succession of ad hoc groups of states purporting to act as a steering committee for the world economy (see map).
http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/fandd/2007/12/boughton.htm
A super-duper macro model guided by some international bureaucrat! The "macro" model is socialist. Paving the way for global government in incremental Fabian steps.
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Old 10-28-2013, 11:16 AM   #17
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We don't need NO stinkin' IMF either!

From: "The IMF Con"
By Ron Paul 2004
The real purpose of the IMF is to channel tax dollars to politically-connected companies. The huge multinational banks and corporations in particular love the IMF, as both used IMF funds — taxpayer funds — to bail themselves out from billions in losses after the Asian financial crisis. Big corporations obtain lucrative contracts for a wide variety of construction projects funded with IMF loans. It's a familiar game in Washington, where corporate welfare is disguised as compassion for the poor.

Government-to-government transfers through a middleman like the IMF cannot produce real growth. When capital remains in private hands, it is allocated to its most productive uses as determined by the choices of consumers in the market. Placing capital in the hands of politicians and bureaucrats inevitably results in inefficiencies, shortages, and economic crises, as even the best-intentioned politicians cannot know the most efficient use of resources.

The IMF and other complex schemes only serve to obscure the real issue: Why should US taxpayers be forced to send money abroad? Certainly the Constitution provides no authority for foreign aid. In historical and practical terms, redistribution of wealth from rich to poor nations has done little or nothing to alleviate suffering abroad. Only free markets, property rights, and the rule of law can create the conditions necessary to lift poor nations out of poverty.

http://archive.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul206.html
Read that? "Taxpayer funds" That's our money. Money =Power and control.
Oh, they don't tell us what to do or have no influence.
They are massive plunderers of global wealth. Same as any socialist because they funnel money to non-productive nations and players.
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Old 10-28-2013, 11:21 AM   #18
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All the IMF report does is hide behind the passive voice to sound acceptable to the public. If one is intellectually honest the IMF is promoting a massive heist of wealth to be transferred quietly and as fast as possible before people figure out what is happening with a timely chance to escape it. I mean geezaz, just read language in the report such a: “harmonizing” taxes across jurisdictions. This is the same goal as the globalists. Let's not forget Cheney is a member of this group of globalists too.
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Old 10-28-2013, 01:30 PM   #19
CrazyPhuD CrazyPhuD is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petegz28 View Post
While this is a fair point that doesn't exclude the way this is being sold. The plans don't keep the same deductible and remove caps. They lower the deductible and remove caps.

So in other words I am forking over money for something I do no want in the form of a lower deductible.
Actually and honestly it's not even remotely a fair point. It's misdirection at its finest.

Remember when we were promised you could 'keep your plan'? Sorry you can't, and it's being disguised that the reason it costs more is that it's better. It's actually not. I can specifically say in my case where my costs have gone up and my coverage actually went down. They'll say you get better lifetime caps or some other BS but that is straight up a lie and to misdirect you from the truth.

If you are young and/or healthy the reason you can't keep your plan isn't because it's non-compliant due to insufficient coverage. It's because the plan is non-compliant because it's too cheap. One of the key aspects of Obummercare is that health can't be used to decide rates. Only age can be used to determine rates, BUT the greatest difference in rate allowed between the highest rates and the cheapest rates in any class of plans is 3-1.

You lost your existing plan because it was too cheap, not because it was lacking in coverage. Your plan was simply too cheap to fit the 3-1 cost ratio which now makes it non-compliant. People will keep saying you're getting 'better' coverage, but this is a misdirection to hide the fact that you're being forced to subsidize someone else's plan.

Pissed yet? Go buy a bag of donuts or smoke a pack of cigarettes. It doesn't matter anymore and if you're going to pay for the plan you might as well get your money's worth!
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Old 10-28-2013, 01:31 PM   #20
Cave Johnson Cave Johnson is offline
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Obama invented high deductibles?

Thanks, Obama.
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Old 10-28-2013, 01:34 PM   #21
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forced high deductibles -- not voluntary ones by choice on the markets whereby you exchange with a lower premium. Remember cave, govt is force. The market isn't.
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Old 10-28-2013, 02:37 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cave Johnson View Post
Obama invented high deductibles?

Thanks, Obama.
Obama didn't really do much when it comes to Obamacare. For the most part, Congressional democrats created it and passed it without any help from Republicans or the White House. Obama's role was just to lie about it. Repeatedly and blatantly.
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Old 10-28-2013, 02:51 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyPhuD View Post
Actually and honestly it's not even remotely a fair point. It's misdirection at its finest.

Remember when we were promised you could 'keep your plan'? Sorry you can't, and it's being disguised that the reason it costs more is that it's better. It's actually not. I can specifically say in my case where my costs have gone up and my coverage actually went down. They'll say you get better lifetime caps or some other BS but that is straight up a lie and to misdirect you from the truth.

If you are young and/or healthy the reason you can't keep your plan isn't because it's non-compliant due to insufficient coverage. It's because the plan is non-compliant because it's too cheap. One of the key aspects of Obummercare is that health can't be used to decide rates. Only age can be used to determine rates, BUT the greatest difference in rate allowed between the highest rates and the cheapest rates in any class of plans is 3-1.

You lost your existing plan because it was too cheap, not because it was lacking in coverage. Your plan was simply too cheap to fit the 3-1 cost ratio which now makes it non-compliant. People will keep saying you're getting 'better' coverage, but this is a misdirection to hide the fact that you're being forced to subsidize someone else's plan.

Pissed yet? Go buy a bag of donuts or smoke a pack of cigarettes. It doesn't matter anymore and if you're going to pay for the plan you might as well get your money's worth!
That is not the case IMO. The reason why alot of these people are losing insurance is because what they had didn't meet the new minimum standards which are:

1. Ambulatory patient services
2. Emergency services
3. Hospitalization
4. Maternity and newborn care
5. Mental health and substance use disorder services, including behavioral health treatment
6. Prescription drugs
7. Rehabilitative services and devices
8. Laboratory services
9. Preventive and wellness services and chronic disease management
10. Pediatric services, including oral and vision care
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Old 10-28-2013, 02:53 PM   #24
petegz28 petegz28 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirk digler View Post
That is not the case IMO. The reason why alot of these people are losing insurance is because what they had didn't meet the new minimum standards which are:

1. Ambulatory patient services
2. Emergency services
3. Hospitalization
4. Maternity and newborn care
5. Mental health and substance use disorder services, including behavioral health treatment
6. Prescription drugs
7. Rehabilitative services and devices
8. Laboratory services
9. Preventive and wellness services and chronic disease management
10. Pediatric services, including oral and vision care
What if you don't want maternity or pediatric care? As I understand it people are still being forced to purchase such.
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Old 10-28-2013, 02:54 PM   #25
petegz28 petegz28 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirk digler View Post
That is not the case IMO. The reason why alot of these people are losing insurance is because what they had didn't meet the new minimum standards which are:

1. Ambulatory patient services
2. Emergency services
3. Hospitalization
4. Maternity and newborn care
5. Mental health and substance use disorder services, including behavioral health treatment
6. Prescription drugs
7. Rehabilitative services and devices
8. Laboratory services
9. Preventive and wellness services and chronic disease management
10. Pediatric services, including oral and vision care
Also I have not see any plans before Obamacare that did not cover ambulatory and emergency services.
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Old 10-28-2013, 02:57 PM   #26
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirk digler View Post
That is not the case IMO. The reason why alot of these people are losing insurance is because what they had didn't meet the new minimum standards which are:

1. Ambulatory patient services
2. Emergency services
3. Hospitalization
4. Maternity and newborn care
5. Mental health and substance use disorder services, including behavioral health treatment
6. Prescription drugs
7. Rehabilitative services and devices
8. Laboratory services
9. Preventive and wellness services and chronic disease management
10. Pediatric services, including oral and vision care
I mean this sincerely and don't mean to make fun of it, but I strongly urge many of the right wingers here to take full advantage of this provision.
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Old 10-28-2013, 03:01 PM   #27
dirk digler dirk digler is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petegz28 View Post
What if you don't want maternity or pediatric care? As I understand it people are still being forced to purchase such.
You get it regardless. There is no doubt the law needs some tweaking because I don't think for example a 60-year old woman is going to get pregnant or at least I don't think so anyway.
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Old 10-28-2013, 03:08 PM   #28
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I didn't realize Catastrophic health insurance plans are only available for the under 30 crowd. That needs to be changed immediately IMO.
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Old 10-28-2013, 03:10 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by dirk digler View Post
You get it regardless. There is no doubt the law needs some tweaking because I don't think for example a 60-year old woman is going to get pregnant or at least I don't think so anyway.
If you're going to create a single pool, you can't start making those kinds of allowances. The philosophy here is that young people have to get in the pool when they don't need to so there's no reason why single men or the elderly shouldn't be in the pool even though they aren't going to get pregnant.
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Old 10-28-2013, 03:11 PM   #30
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I didn't realize Catastrophic health insurance plans are only available for the under 30 crowd. That needs to be changed immediately IMO.
You're off the liberal reservation.
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