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Old 10-28-2013, 08:42 AM  
petegz28 petegz28 is offline
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Obamacare using "deductibles" to prey on the middle class

So looking at plans pre and post Obamacare, reading stories and such here was I see it coming down too. Obamacare is touting "you may pay more but you will have a smaller deductible".

That there is what you call Used Car Salesman talk. If you are generally a healthy person a low deductible is actually costing you more in premiums.

Example:

For coverage for 1 person you now pay $210 a month for an HSA eligible plan with Humana that has a $5000 deductible.

Prior to Obamacare you could get the same plan only with a $6500 deductible for $110 a month.

So that's $100 a month more or $1200 a year more and for what?

I tend to always carry high deductibles because I am not chronically ill and visit the doctor very little. I just want coverage in case I have a heart attack or get in a car accident.

This is but 1 example and if you think $100 month extra for something you most likely won't benefit from won't hurt this economy then you are fooling yourself.
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Old 10-28-2013, 03:13 PM   #31
CrazyPhuD CrazyPhuD is offline
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Originally Posted by dirk digler View Post
That is not the case IMO. The reason why alot of these people are losing insurance is because what they had didn't meet the new minimum standards which are:

1. Ambulatory patient services
2. Emergency services
3. Hospitalization
4. Maternity and newborn care
5. Mental health and substance use disorder services, including behavioral health treatment
6. Prescription drugs
7. Rehabilitative services and devices
8. Laboratory services
9. Preventive and wellness services and chronic disease management
10. Pediatric services, including oral and vision care
Unfortunately you've been lied to. Actually my existing plan had all of those with the exception of maternity services. I had the option of signing up for it but considering the odds of me getting pregnant is pretty remote it seemed an unnecessary cost(i.e. it was ~10-15% more for maternity coverage). But if I wanted to add it, it was always an option at an extra cost.

Most of those features are negligible cost ads and seriously almost every major plan is going to have 1,2 and 3, the fact that you suggest they didn't means you either haven't shopped for your own insurance or your used to buying plans you see advertised on TV.

My plan was a solid BCBS high deductible plan because that's what I needed. Unfortunately it was too cheap, so now I will get a higher deductible with less coverage for ~40% more.

If I didn't have assets I wouldn't be buying coverage and frankly if you're healthy and can afford to gamble that is likely the smart fiscal move. It would also be the great irony...that I had quality health care before Obummercare but it didn't make sense for me fiscally to have it after.
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Old 10-28-2013, 03:13 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by dirk digler View Post
I didn't realize Catastrophic health insurance plans are only available for the under 30 crowd. That needs to be changed immediately IMO.
Yet another example of "one size fits all" government regulatory bullshit.

I won't know for certain for another month but it looks like I will be able to get the exact same policy I have now for DOUBLE the cost. The only difference I can see so far is in crap (maternity, etc) that will never apply to me. Now, in the the interest of full disclosure, my current rates are CHEAP so a doubling isn't thousands of dollars or anything ridiculous. (and no I don't have "crappy' insurance or catastrophic only or anything close to that)
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Old 10-28-2013, 03:14 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
If you're going to create a single pool, you can't start making those kinds of allowances. The philosophy here is that young people have to get in the pool when they don't need to so there's no reason why single men or the elderly shouldn't be in the pool even though they aren't going to get pregnant.
So from what you are saying if they make an allowance for 50-60 year old women to not get pregnancy coverage that will remove them from the big pool and move them into a different one?

If so that makes sense and I can see why that probably shouldn't happen.
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Old 10-28-2013, 03:20 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by dirk digler View Post
So from what you are saying if they make an allowance for 50-60 year old women to not get pregnancy coverage that will remove them from the big pool and move them into a different one?

If so that makes sense and I can see why that probably shouldn't happen.
Well there's a few issues that people will bring up with making a special case just for them.

A...it is still technically possible for a 60+ year old woman to get pregnant and frankly will likely be even more technically viable in the future. She may need donor eggs but the body can do it.

B...A 50+ year old man can still make someone pregnant so will the exception only exist to 50+ year old women and not men?

C...it will likely raise costs even further with the plans due to the bureaucracy of having to support special exemptions. You'd hope this would be small but given the history of medical costs and regulations I wouldn't be optimistic.
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Old 10-28-2013, 03:21 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by CrazyPhuD View Post
Unfortunately you've been lied to. Actually my existing plan had all of those with the exception of maternity services. I had the option of signing up for it but considering the odds of me getting pregnant is pretty remote it seemed an unnecessary cost(i.e. it was ~10-15% more for maternity coverage). But if I wanted to add it, it was always an option at an extra cost.

Most of those features are negligible cost ads and seriously almost every major plan is going to have 1,2 and 3, the fact that you suggest they didn't means you either haven't shopped for your own insurance or your used to buying plans you see advertised on TV.

My plan was a solid BCBS high deductible plan because that's what I needed. Unfortunately it was too cheap, so now I will get a higher deductible with less coverage for ~40% more.

If I didn't have assets I wouldn't be buying coverage and frankly if you're healthy and can afford to gamble that is likely the smart fiscal move. It would also be the great irony...that I had quality health care before Obummercare but it didn't make sense for me fiscally to have it after.
I don't know about your particular situation but if you didn't have maternity coverage then I suspect it didn't meet the minimum standard. Did they send you a letter explaining why you had to change insurance plans?

Quote:
Tiffany Slayden got a letter in the mail that says she can't keep her current health insurance plan because it isn't allowed under the Affordable Care Act. It simply doesn't cover enough, like maternity and newborn care, which is required under essential benefits under federal guidelines. Blue Cross Blue Shield picked a similar plan for her that does, but Slayden said her family of five isn't growing.

"It is absolutely not fair," Slayden said. "In fact, that's why we opted for an independent plan through Blue Cross Blue Shield because we found that my company plan offered maternity and newborn care, and that's not something that we needed."

Slayden didn't want to pay for it if she wasn't going to use it. Slayden's family will now be paying more for the similar plan if they don't qualify for subsidies. The new monthly premium in the BCBS letter is $1365.50.
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Old 10-28-2013, 03:21 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by dirk digler View Post
So from what you are saying if they make an allowance for 50-60 year old women to not get pregnancy coverage that will remove them from the big pool and move them into a different one?

If so that makes sense and I can see why that probably shouldn't happen.
It just means that the cost of those services will have to be spread across a smaller subset of the entire group. If you take that to the extreme, you end up with no insurance at all. I.e. if only women who need pregnancy services sign up for pregnancy services, then those women will each have to pay the full price for those services (ignoring things like the fact that some women will get pregnant once and others will do it multiple times, for the sake of illustration).
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Old 10-28-2013, 03:29 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by CrazyPhuD View Post
Well there's a few issues that people will bring up with making a special case just for them.

A...it is still technically possible for a 60+ year old woman to get pregnant and frankly will likely be even more technically viable in the future. She may need donor eggs but the body can do it.

B...A 50+ year old man can still make someone pregnant so will the exception only exist to 50+ year old women and not men?

C...it will likely raise costs even further with the plans due to the bureaucracy of having to support special exemptions. You'd hope this would be small but given the history of medical costs and regulations I wouldn't be optimistic.
All great points.

Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
It just means that the cost of those services will have to be spread across a smaller subset of the entire group. If you take that to the extreme, you end up with no insurance at all. I.e. if only women who need pregnancy services sign up for pregnancy services, then those women will each have to pay the full price for those services (ignoring things like the fact that some women will get pregnant once and others will do it multiple times, for the sake of illustration).
That makes sense. I was just assuming they would still be all in the same "pool". Thanks!
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Old 10-28-2013, 03:36 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by dirk digler View Post
I don't know about your particular situation but if you didn't have maternity coverage then I suspect it didn't meet the minimum standard. Did they send you a letter explaining why you had to change insurance plans?
My letter merely says your coverage ends on Dec 31, 2013, here is your new 'comparable' plan, the hilarity is that the side by side comparison is laughable.

But you miss part of the point I was making, maternity coverage was 10-15% additional, if that was all that was missing then to be in compliance would only require adding that. Understand that maternity coverage is going to be one of the single most expensive components to insurance, because it can be very expensive to provide OBGYN services. One of the main drivers to this is the rising cost of Malpractice insurance. Think about it, ANYTHING goes wrong with a pregnancy even if it's not the doctors fault and you're paying big bucks. On one side you have sick, hurt or dead kid, on the other you have 'rich' doctor, it doesn't matter if the doctor didn't do anything wrong you're still likely to lose and lose millions. It's why OBGYN malpractice insurance is by far the highest around.

So if all my plan was missing was 10-15% maternity then what's the other 25-30% raise?(Note if everyone has to buy maternity in theory cost should go down because more people are paying in.). The lions share of cost increase would have been maternity, the rest would have been small components IF anything was missing and with my plan I actually don't believe there was much if anything. Again it was likely I was too cheap for the 3-1 ratio.

Frankly what I'd like to know is if ANYONE gets to keep their existing plan on the individual market? Has anyone heard of anyone being able to keep an existing individual plan like we were promised? Or are they all being killed?



The big lie?
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Old 10-28-2013, 03:39 PM   #39
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Yet another example of "one size fits all" government regulatory bullshit.

I won't know for certain for another month but it looks like I will be able to get the exact same policy I have now for DOUBLE the cost. The only difference I can see so far is in crap (maternity, etc) that will never apply to me. Now, in the the interest of full disclosure, my current rates are CHEAP so a doubling isn't thousands of dollars or anything ridiculous. (and no I don't have "crappy' insurance or catastrophic only or anything close to that)
Let us know if they actually let you keep your existing plan(an I assume you're an individual not a business plan?). Like I said I hear cases of people losing I'm curious if people on the individual actually get to keep.
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Old 10-28-2013, 03:46 PM   #40
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I'd bet that there are a few older people with gold plated individual plans who get to keep them under Obamacare, but I sure wouldn't bet that most people can keep them.
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Old 10-28-2013, 03:52 PM   #41
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I'd bet that there are a few older people with gold plated individual plans who get to keep them under Obamacare, but I sure wouldn't bet that most people can keep them.
Actually I just found out...and realized I missed the window by ONE month. I left my old job end of Feb 2010 and become self employed. I picked up my health insurance plan a couple weeks after. IF i had started my plan before march 2010 I'd get to keep it as is, but because I was one month late my plan isn't grandfathered. In short I'd bet everyone who bought March 2010+ is getting canceled.....

Wow this sucks an even bigger donkey dick....
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Old 10-28-2013, 03:58 PM   #42
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Actually I just found out...and realized I missed the window by ONE month. I left my old job end of Feb 2010 and become self employed. I picked up my health insurance plan a couple weeks after. IF i had started my plan before march 2010 I'd get to keep it as is, but because I was one month late my plan isn't grandfathered. In short I'd bet everyone who bought March 2010+ is getting canceled.....

Wow this sucks an even bigger donkey dick....
Wow, that does suck.
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