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Old 11-04-2013, 05:16 PM  
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Out of State Contributions

So we have an election tomorrow in Colorado, and one of the issues on the ballot is a massive tax increase to give money to K-12 schools. It's got all sorts of groundbreaking features, such as:

a) the largest state tax increase in Colorado history
b) the introduction of an income tax to fund schools, on top of property taxes
c) the introduction of a progressive income tax in Colorado that taxes higher incomes at a higher rate

Obviously, it's pretty controversial.

What really annoys me is that we heard recently that the mayor of New York (Bloomberg) gave $1 million to the campaign to pass this tax, and the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation gave $1 million to the campaign to pass this tax.

They're both promoting it as education reform, and whatever. The reason doesn't matter.

But why do we allow out-of-state interests who will not pay the tax to get involved and help get the new tax passed? I've got some rich guy in New York and some rich guy in Washington saying, "Well, hey. Let's get those people in Colorado to pay more taxes." Is there some rationale for doing this that I don't understand?
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Old 11-04-2013, 08:07 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
The Commerce Act isn't the Constitution necessarily though.
This is correct. However, the fact they used the Commerce Clause as justification (and the SC used it to uphold it) for the legislative Acts completely rebuts Patteu's point.
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Old 11-04-2013, 08:13 PM   #62
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I voted for the marijuana taxes because I can't believe it's even a question. If someone is selling lumber, they get taxed. If someone is selling cupcakes, they get taxed. If the potheads want marijuana to be available for retail sale, it should face retail taxes.

My only question, which I've never heard the answer to, is whether the basic sales tax is a given and this is an additional sin tax. It doesn't matter to me since I think it should be sin taxed, but I haven't heard an explanation.

And the wholesale tax, as I understand it, is somewhat of an impact tax. Having a bunch of marijuana floating around is going to create some problems and having tax money from producers to mitigate it is better than raising my property tax or income tax to do it.

On the school tax, it's just excessive. Between this and property taxes, my personal bill for the public school system would range between $300 and $500 PER MONTH, depending on my company income. Add to that the precedents of a new income tax and a progressive tax, and it's a non-starter for me. They got greedy by asking too much.
Though I have retired from voting in national elections, I'll still vote in Colorado elections. I voted against the marijuana tax for two primary reasons: 1. I want to do whatever I can to see that legal marijuana remains the inexpensive alternative to illegal marijuana, and 2. I don't care for the mandate that X% (I can't remember offhand what the number is) of the tax revenues will go to schools. The state legislature should determine that number and it should be a number that is subject to change depending on the makeup of the legislature, IMHO.
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Old 11-04-2013, 08:14 PM   #63
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Good post CB.
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Old 11-04-2013, 08:16 PM   #64
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The tough thing is that we'd all approve bringing in outside money if it supports our viewpoint. But if it's a local area with local autonomy, it seems like they should have control over it, assuming that it's not a violation of federal law or some such thing, in which case it shouldn't be an election issue.

It seems like it would be pretty cool if different states and counties could have different policies. If one county bans guns and another one requires everyone to carry one, that's a great experiment on what works. If one county has big marijuana jail sentences and another one offers it for free next to water fountains, that's another great experiment. If something works well, then voters in other counties or states will see it and perhaps change their thinking.
Did the NRA send money to fund the Colorado recall efforts? I'm asking because I don't know.
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Old 11-04-2013, 08:17 PM   #65
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You dope. The Commerce Act and the Antitrust Act were implemented several decades before the 1930s and were extremely progressive actions taken to further the Fed's oversight of commerce.
Are you talking about laws that regulate industries that are explicitly engaged in interstate commerce like the railroad industry? That's a far cry from establishing your claim that the commerce clause made the 10th Amendment "a meaningless add-on".

To put it in football terms, you're taking credit for starting on the 20 yard line after a touchback when you've promised a touchdown.

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Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
This is correct. However, the fact they used the Commerce Clause as justification (and the SC used it to uphold it) for the legislative Acts completely rebuts Patteu's point.
No, it doesn't even address it. You're acting as if I said the commerce clause was a meaningless add on. You seem to be very confused by this topic.
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Old 11-04-2013, 08:17 PM   #66
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I found this in relation to what dirk found and posted on:

Control and regulation of state and municipal elections rest with the state. A state is free to conduct its elections and limit its electorate as it may deem wise. However, its action may be affected by the prohibitions of the Federal Constitution or in conflict with powers delegated to or exercised by the national government[xiv][--this has to be a specifically enumerated power though such as the 14th, 15th and 19th amendments affecting the right to vote as I stated and again stated in the next paragraph.]

Congress has no general power to regulate elections in regard to state or local officers; rather, such legislation by Congress must be authorized pursuant to the provisions of the Fourteenth or Fifteenth Amendments to the Federal Constitution[xv].
- See more at: http://elections.uslegal.com/regulat....DC7pzs2r.dpuf
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Old 11-04-2013, 08:27 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Please tell us twhat this is, since you're sure.
I would assume 1st amendment since the SC ruled that money was political speech
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Old 11-04-2013, 08:30 PM   #68
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Did the NRA send money to fund the Colorado recall efforts? I'm asking because I don't know.
I don't know, either, but I'd be shocked if they didn't.
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Old 11-04-2013, 08:37 PM   #69
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I don't know, either, but I'd be shocked if they didn't.
I assume they did as well. I'm afraid that if Colorado were to be allowed to outlaw outside contributions from individuals, and even if it were to do so, Bloomberg et al. would simply create nonprofit organizations, solicit Colorado members and funnel the money in anyway. I resent their efforts—They won't have to live with the consequences of almost $1 billion in new taxes on Coloradans—but I suspect that we're powerless to stop them.
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Old 11-04-2013, 08:50 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by dirk digler View Post
I would assume 1st amendment since the SC ruled that money was political speech
That already came up by Direckshun. I commented on how I thought he didn't really understand how that case doesn't apply this this because this is about jurisdiction under federalism.
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Old 11-04-2013, 08:52 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by ClevelandBronco View Post
I assume they did as well. I'm afraid that if Colorado were to be allowed to outlaw outside contributions from individuals, and even if it were to do so, Bloomberg et al. would simply create nonprofit organizations, solicit Colorado members and funnel the money in anyway. I resent their efforts—They won't have to live with the consequences of almost $1 billion in new taxes on Coloradans—but I suspect that we're powerless to stop them.
I agree with this. Efforts to stop the flow of money will just make it harder to see who is lining up on each side.
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Old 11-04-2013, 09:12 PM   #72
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No, it doesn't even address it. You're acting as if I said the commerce clause was a meaningless add on. You seem to be very confused by this topic.
I'm not "acting" like you said anything, I'm specifically quoting you. And your claim that judicial activism on this issue was basically nonexistent prior to the 1930s. That's your quote. And it's laughably wrong. Just own it.
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Old 11-04-2013, 09:14 PM   #73
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Did the NRA send money to fund the Colorado recall efforts? I'm asking because I don't know.
Sure they did, 350,000 smackers worth:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_3866397.html


That may not be entirely apples to apples however since the NRA does have members within the state who would have been affected by gun laws.
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Old 11-04-2013, 09:28 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
Sure they did, 350,000 smackers worth:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_3866397.html


That may not be entirely apples to apples however since the NRA does have members within the state who would have been affected by gun laws.
See post #69.
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Old 11-04-2013, 11:35 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
I'm not "acting" like you said anything, I'm specifically quoting you. And your claim that judicial activism on this issue was basically nonexistent prior to the 1930s. That's your quote. And it's laughably wrong. Just own it.
I own what I said because it's right. You're understanding of the constitution must have come from animated shorts on Saturday mornings.
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