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Old 11-04-2013, 04:16 PM  
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Out of State Contributions

So we have an election tomorrow in Colorado, and one of the issues on the ballot is a massive tax increase to give money to K-12 schools. It's got all sorts of groundbreaking features, such as:

a) the largest state tax increase in Colorado history
b) the introduction of an income tax to fund schools, on top of property taxes
c) the introduction of a progressive income tax in Colorado that taxes higher incomes at a higher rate

Obviously, it's pretty controversial.

What really annoys me is that we heard recently that the mayor of New York (Bloomberg) gave $1 million to the campaign to pass this tax, and the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation gave $1 million to the campaign to pass this tax.

They're both promoting it as education reform, and whatever. The reason doesn't matter.

But why do we allow out-of-state interests who will not pay the tax to get involved and help get the new tax passed? I've got some rich guy in New York and some rich guy in Washington saying, "Well, hey. Let's get those people in Colorado to pay more taxes." Is there some rationale for doing this that I don't understand?
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Old 11-05-2013, 03:09 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
I don't support incorporation the way it's been expanded. I support originalist construction.
Oh, so you are telling us your theory of how things oughta be?

Sometimes you confuse me because you point out a factual detail, like the caption of the case, and I thought you might be talking about something concrete?

So are you fur or agin' out-of-staters funding election ads concerning another state's laws?
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Old 11-05-2013, 03:10 PM   #92
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Old 11-05-2013, 03:12 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jettio View Post
Oh, so you are telling us your theory of how things oughta be?
I'm expressing my viewpoint like everyone else on how things oughta be.

EDIT: Just like our Supreme Court does.
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Old 11-05-2013, 03:17 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by jettio View Post
Oh, so you are telling us your theory of how things oughta be?
That's all she does - base things on what she thinks, not as the law states. The logical person is able to separate the two.
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Old 11-05-2013, 03:44 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris616 View Post
Originalist Construction , I thought you might have a favorite link I could read and pass on .
Oh well, I have several online but they weren't where I first learned of this. It was from a teacher-friend. I'll see what I can locate but I've got one more evening at home here and then half of tomorrow. Don't know if I will get to it tonight. I'll try though....but it's takes a lot more than a few links.

I can recommend The Tenth Amendment Center as one--
tenthamendmentcenter.com

Tom Woods and Ron Paul's books and texas Straight Talk when he was in office

Tom Woods site has a Liberty Classroom that covers a lot of this OC----http://www.tomwoods.com/

He also has videos of what went on with the 14th Amendment when it was passed, and not properly ratified as it was done so at gun point effectively etc. etc. Here's a You Tube page with lectures on this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P56ZeBotFeA

His site overall is great for original construction aka the Jeffersonian view and Woods has a B.A. from Harvard University and a Ph.D. from Columbia University, both in History.
http://www.tomwoods.com/

Warning: many of their positions go against conventional information pushed by statists in the education system, media and govt.


The progs and other lefties hate him but they're statists so it's to be expected. That they hate him is actually a sign of a good thing.
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Old 11-05-2013, 03:48 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
That's all she does - base things on what she thinks, not as the law states. The logical person is able to separate the two.
Actually, it's not "all" I do you lying sack of a phoney conservative. You're a statist.That's why you state it's the law as if the law is always correct or divine.

Some of what I posted under this topic doesn't fall under that even and I even posted that earlier. But I know you can't comprehend easily of follow a train of thought.

As a matter of fact, I've read that Kennedy and Scalia are prepared to eat some* of their words on Citizen's United and I suspect a more nuanced position emerging.

*NOTE:I did not say all here.
Here's the article:
http://www.prwatch.org/news/2013/10/...atest-money-po
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Old 11-05-2013, 03:53 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
I'm expressing my viewpoint like everyone else on how things oughta be.
The Bill of Rights Amendment most recently ruled to be incorporated against the states by the SCOTUS is the 2nd Amendment.

Do you think that result is wrong because it is not consistent with originalist construction?
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Old 11-05-2013, 03:57 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris616 View Post
Thanks , Ron Paul is more interesting than his son.
Yes he is. But he does hew to originalist construction.

Oh and if you want to see notes from the original Constitutional Convention Yale has a nice archive of documents including notes from the CC's debates.

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/subject_menus/constpap.asp

You'll see those just a bit more than halfway down for 1987. I haven't read all of them but have read some from time to time. I plan to read fully when I have more time.
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Old 11-05-2013, 03:58 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by jettio View Post
The Bill of Rights Amendment most recently ruled to be incorporated against the states by the SCOTUS is the 2nd Amendment.
Yes I know. Yet, it was one of the only remaining two that were not incorporated. I am surprised by the left not pushing that, which relates to your next question.

Quote:
Do you think that result is wrong because it is not consistent with originalist construction?
This belongs in another thread. I have already commented on this here somewhere already.
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Old 11-05-2013, 04:25 PM   #100
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Brief digression to answer jettio:

Trying to find a post of mine that summarizes my view on the Incorporation of the BoRs under the 14th Amendment. Apparently the search won't go back as far as 2006. But I've reposted it other times as well. Still doesn't come up.

Generally speaking, the BofR's, applies to the Federal government. The idea of a BofRs came from the States who had them. So the Federal govt cannot infringe gun rights. States, however can make reasonable laws as was done in the allegedly wild west where guns had to be turned in temporarily to enter a town. However, the Congress has other enumerated powers over the militia. Militia in the vernacular of the day, meant the people. So I don't see how a state can ban guns completely or go too far as wiping out the right.

It's not always easy determining what is a fundamental natural right. I just think the 14th Amendment needs tighter language so the idea of federalism isn't destroyed which was not the original intent of the Framers.
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Old 11-05-2013, 05:03 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by Chris616 View Post
Hey could you take care of your PM box ? I am setting up a blog and need some advice.
I can't because I prefer to archive first and I am still not using my own computer.
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Old 11-05-2013, 06:36 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Actually, it's not "all" I do you lying sack of a phoney conservative. You're a statist.That's why you state it's the law as if the law is always correct or divine.

Some of what I posted under this topic doesn't fall under that even and I even posted that earlier. But I know you can't comprehend easily of follow a train of thought.

As a matter of fact, I've read that Kennedy and Scalia are prepared to eat some* of their words on Citizen's United and I suspect a more nuanced position emerging.

*NOTE:I did not say all here.
Here's the article:
http://www.prwatch.org/news/2013/10/...atest-money-po

You're correct that I often cannot follow your train of thought. I'd call it more your train of "baseless opinions" in reality.


If only it weren't for the dastardly machinations of the phony conservatives working in concert with corrupt judges, we'd have a true conservative paradise in America!
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Old 11-05-2013, 06:47 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Trying to find a post of mine that summarizes my view on the Incorporation of the BoRs under the 14th Amendment. Apparently the search won't go back as far as 2006. But I've reposted it other times as well. Still doesn't come up.

Generally speaking, the BofR's, applies to the Federal government. The idea of a BofRs came from the States who had them. So the Federal govt cannot infringe gun rights. States, however can make reasonable laws as was done in the allegedly wild west where guns had to be turned in temporarily to enter a town. However, the Congress has other enumerated powers over the militia. Militia in the vernacular of the day, meant the people. So I don't see how a state can ban guns completely or go too far as wiping out the right.

It's not always easy determining what is a fundamental natural right. I just think the 14th Amendment needs tighter language so the idea of federalism isn't destroyed which was not the original intent of the Framers.

This is mostly true except the last part. "The Framers" aren't a monolithic group as you infer. They had very serious arguments and competing constituencies. I'm sure you noticed this in the Federalist Papers. You cite James Madison all the time, but why don't you ever cite John Jay or Hamilton?


Actually don't answer. We both know why.
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Old 11-05-2013, 08:22 PM   #104
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Old 11-05-2013, 09:29 PM   #105
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Well, I'd like to thank Bloomberg and the Gates Family for importing $1 million of advertising into Colorado. Their bill is getting destroyed. It's not even close to being close. Crisis averted.
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