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Old 11-08-2013, 12:28 AM  
Taco John Taco John is offline
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Nomination is Christie's to lose?

I'm having a hard time seeing how Chris Christie doesn't walk away with thing at this point, and I can't decide if that's a good thing or a bad thing. There's plenty to like about him, though I don't know too much about his foreign policy.

At this point, I don't think Rand can knock him off. I don't think Cruz can knock him off. It's hard to believe Perry could given how terribly he fared the last time around.

There's a lot to happen between then and now - but that's kind of the point. Christie is going to be travelling the country campaigning for governors and raising a ton of cash. And to boot, he's winning a lot of democrats over - he'd have to to win as large as he has in Jersey. He's winning blue dogs over with tough love. He's basically selling conservative ideas minus the Jesus, and what we're seeing is that there's a huge base of democrats that eat it up like Alpo.

Christie is a real problem for the Democrats because if they're running Hillary, they're running her as a leftist version of Christie, and he's going to suck all of the air out of that conversation.

It's hard to imagine right now who is going to beat this juggernaut. I don't think Christie needs either Christian conservatives or libertarians to win. I think he'll pull enough out of the Democrat column to manage just fine.
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Old 11-08-2013, 03:36 PM   #106
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They absolutely did. I've been a libertarian since college. I voted for Harry Browne. I voted for Michael Badnarik. I voted for Ron Paul. I didn't vote in college before that because I was too busy doing college things. Studying, partying, and working to scrape a couple of nickles.

My core has always been as an "economically conservative free market liberal" (that should bend some minds), and a civil rights absolutist who believes the practice of abortion is barbaric especially once you get into the second trimester. You can map just about every issue I have to this map. I believe it's the map to long term freedom and prosperity, despite the short term pains that come with it.

These are the same issues Ayn Rand finds important - though I think she gets plenty wrong. I think she's retarded when it comes to religion. I think her language about sacrifice is imprecise and largely misunderstood / miscommunicated. I like Ms. Rand though because I think she is an avatar of the European conservative who comes to their anti-socialist positions due to having actually lived in the stuff, and knows the perils of utopian nightmares first hand. She's the Orwell of Russia. Frankly, I think people who dismiss her views have a very shallow grasp of civil rights. But I digress.

The point is, as a libertarian not married to either party, I had seen this nation go to war for a questionable war that was not declared by congress. I had witnessed our troops hoodwinking naked prisoners and piling them on each other to humiliate them. I watched as we installed the Patriot Act, robbing civil rights, and establishing secret courts and massive spying aparatuses. I watched guantanamo bay turn into a due process bypass where torture is okay, and indefinitely holding innocent people was deemed to be acceptable.

Are you kidding me? How is anybody giving me any amount of crap for supporting the only guy who was speaking in the right direction towards any of these issues? I'm not embarrassed at all. He voted against raising the debt ceiling when he was a senator. He spoke out against the war. He even offered up a plan for how to get out of Iraq that I thought was very reasonable. It turned out to be bullshit, of course, but at the time when the blood was flowing, it sure sounded nice.

I found out the reality of who he as only as he talked, and it became clear that he was just another big government chicken hawk who happened to say thing prettier than Hillary was able to.
I don't know how you couldn't know what Obama really was. I saw it four years before that when he gave his speech at the DNC. I sat there in the living room and watched and listened and said to myself, "This guy is trouble. He may even be the anti-Christ." Now obviously he has shown to be to polarizing a figure to be the anti-Christ (now I just think he is the devil incarnate) but, fours later when he was running for POTUS it became en vogue to call him that. I was four years ahead of the curve. I say that not to pump myself up but, rather, to ask how in the hell no one else could see it. He was clearly a liberal, and as it turns out much further to left than that.
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Old 11-08-2013, 03:39 PM   #107
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I don't see how it doesn't. Christie pulled the majority of the Hispanic/Latino vote, you do not honestly believe that will happen on a national level against Hillary or any other democrat do you?

The left praised McCain too until he got the nomination and then they turned on him. The same will happen with Christie. If the opposition likes my candidate, the probably shouldn't be he candidate, and really isn't mine to begin with.
It's too early for any 2016 poll to matter. There's too much that is going to happen between now and then. Benghazi is going to continue to pummel Hillary. You remember what the Swift Boat Veterans did to Kerry? The commercials for Benghazi practically write themselves. She's going to be inundated with answering questions about that. Christy isn't going to have that kind of stink on him.
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Old 11-08-2013, 03:47 PM   #108
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Remember Rick Perry has been elected governor of this state more than once.

bcuz texas
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Are you suggesting that if he hadn't kissed up to Obama in such a public way, Obama would have prevented aid from flowing to New Jersey?
Of course not. Why is it such a bad thing to be respectful of people?
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Old 11-08-2013, 03:47 PM   #109
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It's too early for any 2016 poll to matter. There's too much that is going to happen between now and then. Benghazi is going to continue to pummel Hillary. You remember what the Swift Boat Veterans did to Kerry? The commercials for Benghazi practically write themselves. She's going to be inundated with answering questions about that. Christy isn't going to have that kind of stink on him.
Notice, I did not say just Hillary. No republican, not even Christie, is going to pull the majority of the Hispanic/Latino vote nation wide. I realize this flies in the face of the current conventional wisdom but, if the republicans want a legit shot at winning the White House they are going to have to have a candidate that the base will rally behind. If you are trying to win by appealing to moderate democrats and minorities, you are ****ed. The majority of those demographics will still vote democrat.


And Christie will have all kinds of stink emanating from himself. Even if by some chance he is the cleanest politician ever, stink will hover over him. But I really don't think it will have to be made up.
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Old 11-08-2013, 03:51 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
It's too early for any 2016 poll to matter. There's too much that is going to happen between now and then. Benghazi is going to continue to pummel Hillary. You remember what the Swift Boat Veterans did to Kerry? The commercials for Benghazi practically write themselves. She's going to be inundated with answering questions about that. Christy isn't going to have that kind of stink on him.
People didn't give a shit when it was actually happening during the election you think people are going to remember or care 6 years later? That is a fools errand.
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Old 11-08-2013, 03:54 PM   #111
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Benghazi is becoming more pathetic than Troopergate.
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Old 11-08-2013, 03:55 PM   #112
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True



Of course not. Why is it such a bad thing to be respectful of people?
If you don't believe Obama would have been vindictive then there was no reason for him to embrace Obama at that point in the election cycle other than for personal political benefit in his fairly blue state.
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Old 11-08-2013, 03:55 PM   #113
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Benghazi is becoming more pathetic than Troopergate.
And the shills continue to circle their wagons.
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Old 11-08-2013, 03:56 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by Raiderhader View Post
Notice, I did not say just Hillary. No republican, not even Christie, is going to pull the majority of the Hispanic/Latino vote nation wide. I realize this flies in the face of the current conventional wisdom but, if the republicans want a legit shot at winning the White House they are going to have to have a candidate that the base will rally behind. If you are trying to win by appealing to moderate democrats and minorities, you are ****ed. The majority of those demographics will still vote democrat.


And Christie will have all kinds of stink emanating from himself. Even if by some chance he is the cleanest politician ever, stink will hover over him. But I really don't think it will have to be made up.

The "hispanic" vote will disperse once immigration is put to bed. People who think that "hispanics" are natural democrats are frankly being racial. There's nothing about "hispanic" culture(s) that make them inherently democrat. "Hispanics" just believe in the promise of America as much as any other culture does, and want to participate in it.

Once that issue goes away, so does the Democrat grasp on their vote. This is not a permanent Democrat voting base.

Whatever happens in the next two years will tell the tale of that voting block.
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Old 11-08-2013, 03:57 PM   #115
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This is my favorite point, because it would end up being all the enlightened righty Dems who would buck this "made for TV candidate" thing. You're right though, it's been a long time since we elected a fat guy for the chair.
Very little of that was relating to his physical characteristics, but your asinine assertion that being an obnoxious fat guy is a universally lovable character.
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Old 11-08-2013, 03:59 PM   #116
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And the shills continue to circle their wagons.
Shills? ...there would be forty simultaneous threads in this subforum had Lara Logan cleared a known liar to put forth a defense of what happened at that embassy rather than an erroneous broadside.
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Old 11-08-2013, 04:01 PM   #117
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People didn't give a shit when it was actually happening during the election you think people are going to remember or care 6 years later? That is a fools errand.

Enough people cared about the swift boat veterans when it came time to pull the lever for Kerry over Bush.

We can debate whether Benghazi will be impactful, but what we can't debate is whether there will be groups putting together commercial after commercial hammering Hillary about it. We can at least agree that will 100% happen, right?
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Old 11-08-2013, 04:01 PM   #118
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It's too early for any 2016 poll to matter. There's too much that is going to happen between now and then. Benghazi is going to continue to pummel Hillary. You remember what the Swift Boat Veterans did to Kerry? The commercials for Benghazi practically write themselves. She's going to be inundated with answering questions about that. Christy isn't going to have that kind of stink on him.
Billary will destroy him. She will run as Santa Claus with tits. The first female president will be blasted over and over and add that to the gifts will keep coming. Fat boy sold out in the eyes of the right and the attacks on him from the GOP before the election will well arm the left. The GOP better offer up better than this. He has Romney written all over him with less support from the right~
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Old 11-08-2013, 04:03 PM   #119
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If you don't believe Obama would have been vindictive then there was no reason for him to embrace Obama at that point in the election cycle other than for personal political benefit in his fairly blue state.
What was he supposed to do? Tell the POTUS to shove it and stay away. That is stupid and people who don't like Christie because of that should get out of their grade school mentality.
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Old 11-08-2013, 04:04 PM   #120
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The "hispanic" vote will disperse once immigration is put to bed. People who think that "hispanics" are natural democrats are frankly being racial. There's nothing about "hispanic" culture(s) that make them inherently democrat. "Hispanics" just believe in the promise of America as much as any other culture does, and want to participate in it.

Once that issue goes away, so does the Democrat grasp on their vote. This is not a permanent Democrat voting base.

Whatever happens in the next two years will tell the tale of that voting block.
No, I'm being realistic and looking historical results. When is the last time a republican presidential candidate took the majority of that demographic? Go look up Reagan's percentage of that vote AFTER he passed the amnesty law. It ain't pretty.

I realize you probably take this a bit personal but, the majority of that demographic flooding into this country are looking for government hand outs. Their voting record speaks to it.
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