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Old 11-12-2013, 03:53 PM  
BigRedChief BigRedChief is offline
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You should be able to keep yout health care plan.

Clinton is right. Obama needs to man up and work with the Republicans in the house and senate.

Produce a bill that exempts current health care plans from following Obamacare guidelines.

Thats what was sold to the public...........you like your health care plan, you can keep it.

It's the right thing to do.


Now, employer provided insurance should never have happened, but it did. Employee provided insurance's days are numbered. It's going to die soon. Thats a totally separate issue from Obamacare.

Last edited by BigRedChief; 11-12-2013 at 04:03 PM..
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Old 11-13-2013, 05:03 PM   #136
HonestChieffan HonestChieffan is offline
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If blame is the game..

Blacks who vote for a black and will continue to even though they sre getting raped by dem policy and Obama. He has done more to hurt young blacks than any modern day leader

Young people who vote for these scumbags who paint a rosey picture and destroy their opportunity to get a job , advance and make a pile of money

Ignorant liberals who have no clue
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Old 11-13-2013, 05:52 PM   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. tegu View Post
Hence the "kind of." That is why I was asking if you think that getting more voters against Obamacare could have won Romney the election. If you say yes, then yes they could have stopped it. If you say no, then there really was no stopping it in your opinion. Both are fine I am just curious what your thoughts are.
You didn't say "kind of" when you originally brought this up. And "kind of" isn't enough of a retreat from your original position to recover, IMO.

If angry mobs had descended upon Washington, tarred and feathered the President and forcibly removed him from office, they might have stopped Obamacare too, but I'm not going to blame people for failing to take up pitchforks. The blame lies 100% with democrats. Not one iota less.
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Old 11-13-2013, 05:54 PM   #138
patteeu patteeu is offline
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
Probably this. It was maybe the worst, unelectable, crop of potential candidates ever assembled, ever. That Romney was the most electable among them--the only guy in the whole country who also signed a mandatory health insurance law--is kind of hilarious.

You should have let them know you were available.
The only guy in the whole country who signed a mandatory health insurance law wanted to repeal this one. That should have been enough to clue cheerleaders like yourself onto the notion that there was something wrong with Obamacare.
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Old 11-13-2013, 05:54 PM   #139
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The wrath of the jesuit overlords will be shooting lightning through the bowels of the earth in order to split the rock upon the temple and mount the ram with the bull. The epiglottal influx is vibrating and sensing that the end times are upon us.

What I'm saying here is... enough of the rest of you. How does Chris feel about this?
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Old 11-13-2013, 06:08 PM   #140
Bwana Bwana is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blake5676 View Post
Well...now that the numbers are officially out, we can start to see just how horribly awful this is. According to the HHS report, the number is 106,000 people in the first month.

Let's break that number down a little more. It isn't 106k that have actually purchased and paid for a plan, but the number of people who have put a plan in their "shopping cart". Unbelievable.

So extrapolated out the the confirmed and growing number of cancellations thus far, we have exactly 2 people thinking of buying a plan for every 100 that have lost their plans. Bravo!
106K? What a complete cluster ****.
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Old 11-13-2013, 06:37 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
If blame is the game..

Blacks who vote for a black and will continue to even though they sre getting raped by dem policy and Obama. He has done more to hurt young blacks than any modern day leader

Young people who vote for these scumbags who paint a rosey picture and destroy their opportunity to get a job , advance and make a pile of money

Ignorant liberals who have no clue


I think that applies to all liberals/progressive thinkers
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Old 11-13-2013, 07:26 PM   #142
AustinChief AustinChief is offline
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Originally Posted by Bwana View Post
106K? What a complete cluster ****.
That's 100k who have picked a plan.. not ones who have actually fully qualified and PAID. This thing is a COMPLETE disaster.

But wait.. I'm sure Cave et al. will be here to tell me it's just like the launch of a new iphone!
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Old 11-13-2013, 07:50 PM   #143
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is offline
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You BET he's far from done!

Obama Has Just Implemented a Plan for Government Control Over America’s Resources
using an Executive Order no less! This is fascism.


http://www.lewrockwell.com/2013/11/g...scist-state-2/

Like I said. Obama is a red!
Where does it say that?
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Old 11-13-2013, 07:53 PM   #144
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is offline
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
The only guy in the whole country who signed a mandatory health insurance law wanted to repeal this one. That should have been enough to clue cheerleaders like yourself onto the notion that there was something wrong with Obamacare.
Yes, he said he wanted to repeal it. But surely you see how ridiculous his nomination was considering the R position on mandatory health insurance and Romney's role in being the only person in the entire country in mandating health insurance.

It wasn't a clue something was wrong, it was a clue that Romney was a shape-shifter who said what Rs wanted to hear.
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Old 11-13-2013, 09:06 PM   #145
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That's 100k who have picked a plan.. not ones who have actually fully qualified and PAID. This thing is a COMPLETE disaster.

But wait.. I'm sure Cave et al. will be here to tell me it's just like the launch of a new iphone!
I want to know how many people have purchased a policy and are covered.

Something tells me the Obama regime will not be providing us with that figure.
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Old 11-13-2013, 10:03 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
What was the procedural trickery? And please provide something to back up your assertion.
Come on Cosmo. Are you serious? Did you ever hear of the Origination Clause in the U.S. Constitution? It states that all revenue bills must originate in the House of Representatives. The Democrats in the Senate circumvented this constitutional requirement by taking a House bill, stripping EVERYTHING from the bill except for the Bill number, and REPLACING it with the full text of Obamacare. How the hell can you NOT call that procedural trickery? That is so blatant that it's shameful.

What about the way the Democrats abused the reconciliation process? If a bill is passed by both houses of congress but the bills are not identical, it has to go through a reconciliation process, and the final reconciled bill has to be passed by both houses AGAIN. At least that's the way it's SUPPOSED to work. Pelosi knew the political winds had shifted to the point where the final bill would not be approved by the Senate, especially since the voters elected Scott Brown in order to prevent the Democrats from having a filibuster-proof 60 vote majority. That final vote never took place. Instead, Obamacare was "deemed to have passed". How the hell can you NOT call that procedural trickery?

The administration claimed over and over that the individual mandate was NOT a tax so that the Democrats could vote for it without facing the wrath of the voters. Then the administration turned around and argued in the front of the Supreme Court that the individual mandate IS a tax. How the hell can you NOT call that procedural trickery?

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Old 11-13-2013, 10:06 PM   #147
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And don't get me started on the Louisiana Purchase and the Cornhusker Kickback. This bill was so bad that they had to bribe some of the members of their own party to support it. That may not be procedural trickery. It just shows what a horrible bill this thing was from the very beginning.
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Old 11-13-2013, 10:15 PM   #148
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Old 11-13-2013, 10:41 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
Yes, he said he wanted to repeal it. But surely you see how ridiculous his nomination was considering the R position on mandatory health insurance and Romney's role in being the only person in the entire country in mandating health insurance.

It wasn't a clue something was wrong, it was a clue that Romney was a shape-shifter who said what Rs wanted to hear.
That's a pretty uncharitable way to interpret it. I take him at his word. That's something we clearly can't do with Obama.
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Old 11-13-2013, 11:10 PM   #150
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is offline
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Come on Cosmo. Are you serious? Did you ever hear of the Origination Clause in the U.S. Constitution? It states that all revenue bills must originate in the House of Representatives. The Democrats in the Senate circumvented this constitutional requirement by taking a House bill, stripping EVERYTHING from the bill except for the Bill number, and REPLACING it with the full text of Obamacare. How the hell can you NOT call that procedural trickery? That is so blatant that it's shameful.

What about the way the Democrats abused the reconciliation process? If a bill is passed by both houses of congress but the bills are not identical, it has to go through a reconciliation process, and the final reconciled bill has to be passed by both houses AGAIN. At least that's the way it's SUPPOSED to work. Pelosi knew the political winds had shifted to the point where the final bill would not be approved by the Senate, especially since the voters elected Scott Brown in order to prevent the Democrats from having a filibuster-proof 60 vote majority. That final vote never took place. Instead, Obamacare was "deemed to have passed". How the hell can you NOT call that procedural trickery?

The administration claimed over and over that the individual mandate was NOT a tax so that the Democrats could vote for it without facing the wrath of the voters. Then the administration turned around and argued in the front of the Supreme Court that the individual mandate IS a tax. How the hell can you NOT call that procedural trickery?
Regarding the Origination Clause--I have discussed this many times. First, amending a House bill it isn't much of a "trick" when it is a fairly common move. It is a move that has been upheld by the Supreme Court, and I don't mean in regards to the ACA--cases prior to that.

Second, and more importantly--this wasn't "a revenue bill." Much prior to the ACA, the SC has said bills "for raising revenue" means that is the primary purpose of the bill. The main purpose of the ACA is reforming health insurance. Again, this is well-established law that is certainly not a "trick." It is telling that the SC challenge to Obamacare did not raise these issues.

Regarding reconciliation and Pelosi--I think you are confused.
"Deem and pass" - This "trick" was used by Newt Gingrich 90 times. It was used by Dennis Hastert 112 times. Most importantly, it wasn't used on the ACA.

Reconciliation, which was used five times during W. Bush's terms, was used on part of the ACA. It can only be used on certain narrow budget-impacting issues, and, as you can see by it's historical use, is hardly a "trick."

The "it's a tax" issue--Tax/not a tax is a legal argument. As a practical matter, call it a tax, a penalty, or a giraffe, I don't see the difference. It was what it was--something you had to pay if you didn't obtain insurance. The Rs all along called Obamacare the biggest tax increase ever. The notion that calling it a tax if you don't obtain insurance vs. a penalty if you don't obtain insurance made a difference I think is silly.
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