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Old 11-12-2013, 03:53 PM  
BigRedChief BigRedChief is offline
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You should be able to keep yout health care plan.

Clinton is right. Obama needs to man up and work with the Republicans in the house and senate.

Produce a bill that exempts current health care plans from following Obamacare guidelines.

Thats what was sold to the public...........you like your health care plan, you can keep it.

It's the right thing to do.


Now, employer provided insurance should never have happened, but it did. Employee provided insurance's days are numbered. It's going to die soon. Thats a totally separate issue from Obamacare.

Last edited by BigRedChief; 11-12-2013 at 04:03 PM..
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Old 11-12-2013, 05:00 PM   #16
Garcia Bronco Garcia Bronco is offline
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Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
I think this thing has got to be repealed. Everyone sees what is happening with the individual market right now. Next year, the same thing is set to happen in the group market. Is that what people want?

This thing has only begun to unpack itself. My employer has already let us know that we're losing our plan next year, and the one replacing it will be more expensive. They've asked us if we'd like an FSA plan. I'm considering it. I've had insurance since getting a job out of college, and now I'm considering dropping it, using the FSA, and signing up with a local concierge doctor. I'll use the FSA to cover expenses, and if we get sick we apply for health insurance during the next open enrollment.

But you guys stay in this crap so that I have something to come back to if I need it, aight?
You want an HSA, not an FSA. FAS dollars are use it or lose it.
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Old 11-12-2013, 05:18 PM   #17
patteeu patteeu is offline
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Originally Posted by CrazyPhuD View Post
Honestly this is a classic damned if you do damned if you don't point.

Is it the right thing to do? Absolutely...will it kill obummercare even more? Almost certainly Why? The only people who will be keeping their plans will be those who's plans are cheap and healthy. That makes even fewer people to spread around all the costs for all the sick people in obummercare. Which means the costs are going to be even higher than what they are today.

Long term this likely won't last in that the insurance companies alone will probably kill most plans. Really this is a Sophie's Choice for Obama.
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You want an HSA, not an FSA. FAS dollars are use it or lose it.
I agree with both of these. I also agree with Taco that it's time to repeal this mess and with BRC that employer-provided health insurance going away is part of the solution.
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Old 11-12-2013, 05:20 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco View Post
It's really not a separate issue. It's a big issue. You'll have Americans going from pre-tax company subsidized dollars to post tax non-company subsidized dollars. And they will be pissed.

"Hey I know you're working hard, but you're about to take a 400 dollar per month pay cut. Enjoy."
The movement away from employer provided health care was going to happen if Obamacare never exists. That makes it a seperate issue. Are there variables and despondency's that both effect now, sure.

The people in Washington just need to adjust the tax code to not raise taxes on john doe citizen as this transition takes place.
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Old 11-12-2013, 05:23 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
The movement away from employer provided health care was going to happen if Obamacare never exists..
How do you figure this? Especially when it's an excellent tool to get good talent? How was that going away?
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Old 11-12-2013, 05:29 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post

The people in Washington just need to adjust the tax code to not raise taxes on john doe citizen as this transition takes place.
What? How does that even begin to happen? It doesn't. The example I gave above is just for me and I have no dependents. If you have 2 you're looking at anywhere from a 500-1000 dollar a month pay cut.
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Old 11-12-2013, 05:51 PM   #21
BigRedChief BigRedChief is offline
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
I agree with both of these. I also agree with Taco that it's time to repeal this mess and with BRC that employer-provided health insurance going away is part of the solution.
JFC, I'm still not in favor of repeal. Just in favor of people keeping their plans.

Repeal is never going to happen. The Republicans will never have control of the Presidency/House/Senate. Your repeal is a pipe dream.

History lesson.....Every major new program (Social Security, Medicare etc.) has large amounts of the populace vehemently opposed to its existence. Your hero Ronald Reagan was one of these against Medicare's existence. Try to run against doing away with medicare now. Any party that tries now will cease to exist as a political party.

Obamacare has issues, some can be fixed with new legislation. but, you and your brethren are going to have to accept its existence. The old way was broken unless you have another plan, I'd rather give Obamacare a chance than return to the old way that we know doesn't work.
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Originally Posted by MTG#10 View Post
I believe Hitler hated Jews and had a lot of them killed. I dont believe it was anywhere close to 6 million though. I'm not an anti-semite; I just think that number has been severely inflated and there is a lot of evidence that supports this belief.
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Old 11-12-2013, 05:55 PM   #22
BigRedChief BigRedChief is offline
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Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco View Post
If you have 2 you're looking at anywhere from a 500-1000 dollar a month pay cut.
BS. How many are paying $1000 a month total? How many are saving $1000 a month in taxes on health insurance? What would you be paying, $6000 a month for health insurance?
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Originally Posted by MTG#10 View Post
I believe Hitler hated Jews and had a lot of them killed. I dont believe it was anywhere close to 6 million though. I'm not an anti-semite; I just think that number has been severely inflated and there is a lot of evidence that supports this belief.
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Old 11-12-2013, 05:57 PM   #23
2bikemike 2bikemike is offline
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Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco View Post
You want an HSA, not an FSA. FAS dollars are use it or lose it.
We are being offered the HSA fro the first time during our open enrollment, very seriously considering it. It is about $150 a month less than what I am contributing now. My wife and I are both pretty healthy and very rarely go to the Docs.
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Old 11-12-2013, 06:13 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
JFC, I'm still not in favor of repeal. Just in favor of people keeping their plans.

It's effectively the same thing. The math doesn't work out if Obama had told the truth.

Any law that allows people to keep their same health insurance is an effective repeal of the law due to what it does to the cost of insurance on the individual exchange.

It wouldn't affect prices this year, unless the insurance companies all got together and collaborated on a new price for plans. The law, the way it's written, only allows them to change the prices the following year, unless they collaborate on a price fixing scheme this year and change at the same time.

It's a very stupid law.
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Old 11-12-2013, 06:18 PM   #25
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BS. How many are paying $1000 a month total? How many are saving $1000 a month in taxes on health insurance? What would you be paying, $6000 a month for health insurance?
A buddy of mine who runs his own insurance branch saw his family premiums go up from $1200 a month to $2200 a month. Or so he says. I didn't ask him for receipts or anything.
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Old 11-12-2013, 06:24 PM   #26
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BS. How many are paying $1000 a month total? How many are saving $1000 a month in taxes on health insurance? What would you be paying, $6000 a month for health insurance?
Like I said and it will vary from person-to-person and family-to-family...you are going from pre-tax-company-subsidized health insurance premiums to post-tax-NON-subsidized health insurance premiums.
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Old 11-12-2013, 06:25 PM   #27
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We are being offered the HSA fro the first time during our open enrollment, very seriously considering it. It is about $150 a month less than what I am contributing now. My wife and I are both pretty healthy and very rarely go to the Docs.
Do it. Just start stocking it up. It should be pre-tax dollars as well.
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Old 11-12-2013, 06:30 PM   #28
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Old 11-12-2013, 06:37 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
A buddy of mine who runs his own insurance branch saw his family premiums go up from $1200 a month to $2200 a month. Or so he says. I didn't ask him for receipts or anything.
WTF is anyone paying $2200 a month unless he or someone in his family has a pre-existing condition. Free market rates with pre-existing conditions would be that high. But, thanks to Obamacare on Jan. 1st........companies can;t charge more for pre-exsisting conditions.
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Originally Posted by MTG#10 View Post
I believe Hitler hated Jews and had a lot of them killed. I dont believe it was anywhere close to 6 million though. I'm not an anti-semite; I just think that number has been severely inflated and there is a lot of evidence that supports this belief.
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Old 11-12-2013, 07:10 PM   #30
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WTF is anyone paying $2200 a month unless he or someone in his family has a pre-existing condition. Free market rates with pre-existing conditions would be that high. But, thanks to Obamacare on Jan. 1st........companies can;t charge more for pre-exsisting conditions.
Actually, now that I think on it, he didn't give me figures. He just told me that his premiums are going up by $1000 a month. I did the math on my own based on what I'm paying with employer matching...

That's the thing, he doesn't have employer matching - he's the employer. They were paying approx. $1100 - $1200 a month, just like anyone with decent insurance (and employer matching). He says his premium went up by about $1000/month.

This bill is a real killer for small business owners. He says he ended up having to lay of a gal he had just hired to cover the nut. Sucks for her. Sucks for him too because he says he had to basically throw away his growth plan for at least a year until this all shakes out.

This bill is stupid.
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