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Old 11-12-2013, 03:53 PM  
BigRedChief BigRedChief is offline
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You should be able to keep yout health care plan.

Clinton is right. Obama needs to man up and work with the Republicans in the house and senate.

Produce a bill that exempts current health care plans from following Obamacare guidelines.

Thats what was sold to the public...........you like your health care plan, you can keep it.

It's the right thing to do.


Now, employer provided insurance should never have happened, but it did. Employee provided insurance's days are numbered. It's going to die soon. Thats a totally separate issue from Obamacare.

Last edited by BigRedChief; 11-12-2013 at 04:03 PM..
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Old 11-13-2013, 05:36 AM   #91
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If they aren't going to discuss it in a reasonable way, that is the proper response.
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Old 11-13-2013, 05:55 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by blaise View Post
My guess is, for BRC, this thread is 90% about him being able to parade around DC going, "I was outspoken in my views that people should be able to keep their own plans," and act like he's somehow not a shill.
At this point you have to be a Carney level shill or a useful idiot to be in favor of keeping this thing in place.
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Old 11-13-2013, 05:59 AM   #93
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This is not good enough.

They need to repeal it and figure something else out. They need to concentrate on the lowering costs because no way should healthcare cost 300-500% more here than it does in the next closest country for equal or better care.

If they only allow people to keep their existing plans does nothing but bandaid the problem for some, but when their needs change, it puts them in a extremily high priced plan.
The main problem is going to be that nobody is going to sign up for this unless they cant get insured anywhere else. Young and healthy people arent going to sign up for it. The biggest lie of all was that this program was funded, and would not add to the deficit. It is going to be a financial disaster for this country,
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Old 11-13-2013, 06:25 AM   #94
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Old 11-13-2013, 06:28 AM   #95
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I was just reading yesterday that when they publish signup statistics, they are going to count people as an enrollee if they put a plan in their shopping cart on the website, not if they actually purchased and enrolled in a plan.
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Old 11-13-2013, 06:47 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by Cochise View Post
I was just reading yesterday that when they publish signup statistics, they are going to count people as an enrollee if they put a plan in their shopping cart on the website, not if they actually purchased and enrolled in a plan.
Endless lies. It's what they do.
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Old 11-13-2013, 07:06 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Not allowing people to keep their own plans was an integral part of Obamacare. You can't just reverse that without making Obamacare even more of a disaster than it already is. The democrats will try to anyway and they'll try to mask the negative results with even more deficit spending. Afterall, we're past the point where they had to lie about it being a net deficit reducer to get it passed.
I don't know why this point isn't beat to death by the GOP. There is evidence that NBC has pulled up that the administration knew that a portion of the country couldn't keep their insurance. They may have underestimated, but that just points to their incompetency and ignorance of free markets.

The foundation of Obamacare was to MANDATE high coverage, thereby FORCING insurance companies to jack up rates to mitigate risk. It is a giant transfer of wealth from those who are young, lucky or responsible about their health to those who aren't . PERIOD.

Obamacare does not work if people are allowed to keep their private insurance. It was obvious before, but the GOP was just scaring people according to the president. Only two conclusions come from this whole fiasco:

1. Obama and the Democrats are some of the biggest liars in the history of politics.

OR

2. Obama and the Democrats are completely ignorant of what drives the economy and markets

Either conclusion points to that they should not be allowed anywhere near a legistlative pen again.
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Old 11-13-2013, 07:18 AM   #98
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Yeah pete thats right my whole time on this board has been to advocate for big business, big oil and wall street. **** the middle class and the little guy. Damn you got me.
You've done nothing short than champion this Admin and that is exactly who has benefited, Wall St, Big Business, etc So...nice try
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Old 11-13-2013, 08:27 AM   #99
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Can Obama fix Obamacare?

http://news.yahoo.com/can-obama-fix-...012751271.html

Quote:
Former President Bill Clinton made headlines when he suggested that President Obama “fix” the Affordable Care Act so that Americans who are losing their health care plans could keep their coverage.


Yahoo News canvassed a number of healthcare and legal experts to find out how such a fix would work and if it's even feasible for the more than 3 million Americans and counting who have lost their plans to have their healthcare cancellations reversed.

• Is an across-the-board fix to the cancellations even possible?


Probably not, according to multiple sources contacted by Yahoo News.

"In my view, as politically appealing as President Clinton’s suggestion is, it would be extraordinarily hard at this late date to reverse course, given all the changes that already have taken place in the insurance market," said Jonathan Oberlander, a professor of Social Medicine and Health Policy & Management at UNC-Chapel Hill.

Another policy expert said they do not see how it would be done, as it would, in effect, cancel the insurance market reforms.

The Affordable Care Act (Obamacare) depends on healthy and wealthier individuals paying premiums in order to subsidize the plans that cover the sick and the poor. Without those healthy and wealthier individuals paying for coverage they won't use very often, the ACA can't afford itself.

Thus grandfathering in all individual policies now would essentially strip away funding necessary for Obamacare to survive.

"To now grandfather in policies sold in 2013 would destabilize the insurance risk pool, threatening the ability of the law to do what it was intended to do from the beginning – to end health status underwriting," Timothy Jost, a professor at Washington & Lee University’s School of Law, told Yahoo News.

Jost adds that expanding the grandfather clause to policies sold in 2013 cannot be done without changing the law, "and such a change in the law would be inadvisable."

"To help out the people the administration wants to help out, plans that have lost their grandfathered status would have to see that status restored retroactively," Nick Bagley, an assistant professor of law at the University of Michigan, explains in a blog post. "The Supreme Court, however, has held that retroactive rulemaking is a no-no. I don't see how HHS [Health and Human Services] gets around that precedent."

"The politics of this are miserable," Bagley told Yahoo News. "The administration will be quite reluctant to open the door to a legislative fix. A 'fix' from a hostile Congress could undermine health-care reform, not improve it.”

• What are the possible fixes being proposed?

President Obama hasn't explained what his plan is yet.

Friday, the House is expected to take up Fred Upton's (R–MI) bill that would allow insurance companies the option of continuing existing plans for one year. Mary Landrieu (D-LA) has sponsored a similar bill in the Senate that extends the grandfather clause permanently as long as individuals pay their premiums on time.

But even if President Obama signed either bill into law, neither would stop insurance companies from cancelling plans or raising rates at their discretion.

"If somehow President Obama could magically wave a wand and put things back as they were, there is no guarantee insurers wouldn't cancel plans or dramatically raise rates the next year," Oberlander said. "Then again, lots of unanticipated things have happened in health policy, so I wouldn't rule anything out."

• How many people would a potential "fix" even affect?

Probably not very many.

When asked if any fix Obama considers would likely impact only those individuals who don't qualify for government subsidies and whose premiums are higher than they can afford, White House spokesman Jay Carney responded, "It's a fair characterization of people who are most affected by this problem."

"It's obviously not every individual in the individual market today, but beyond that I'm not going to get into defining the population here," Carney said.

So many individuals who like their plans and want to keep them – like Edith Sundby, whose editorial in the Wall Street Journal gained widespread attention – will almost certainly still face cancellations.

• What will Obama do next?

"The president has instructed his team to look at a range of options," Carney said Tuesday. "We haven't announced any potential fixes or moves we might make to address this problem."

When pressed for a timeline, Carney said: "I don't have a timeline for it, except the president asked for something, and when he asks for something, people tend to work on it pretty quickly."

Obama may be forced to announce his plan by Friday if Congressional Democrats are to avoid backing the Upton bill.

Dylan Stableford and Jay Hart contributed to this story.
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Old 11-13-2013, 09:26 AM   #100
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Pure Horseshit from the Pro Govt Healthcare take over side.

Kill it and reverse the rules and the Insurance business will flex to the before state in a month. It will cost them a ton but that is what a good dem likes.
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Old 11-13-2013, 09:38 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by donkhater View Post
I don't know why this point isn't beat to death by the GOP. There is evidence that NBC has pulled up that the administration knew that a portion of the country couldn't keep their insurance. They may have underestimated, but that just points to their incompetency and ignorance of free markets.

The foundation of Obamacare was to MANDATE high coverage, thereby FORCING insurance companies to jack up rates to mitigate risk. It is a giant transfer of wealth from those who are young, lucky or responsible about their health to those who aren't . PERIOD.

Obamacare does not work if people are allowed to keep their private insurance. It was obvious before, but the GOP was just scaring people according to the president. Only two conclusions come from this whole fiasco:

1. Obama and the Democrats are some of the biggest liars in the history of politics.

OR

2. Obama and the Democrats are completely ignorant of what drives the economy and markets

Either conclusion points to that they should not be allowed anywhere near a legistlative pen again.
I would add a third option.

3. The GOP is completely inept as well. Many did not think Obamacare would work and the oppurtunities to win the election were there, but instead of focusing on it and other economic issues that undecideds really care about they continued to campaign on social issues as well, which they are really bad at.
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Old 11-13-2013, 09:45 AM   #102
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I would add a third option.

3. The GOP is completely inept as well. Many did not think Obamacare would work and the oppurtunities to win the election were there, but instead of focusing on it and other economic issues that undecideds really care about they continued to campaign on social issues as well, which they are really bad at.
Uh, what social issues did Romney campaign on?
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Old 11-13-2013, 09:46 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by mr. tegu View Post
I would add a third option.

3. The GOP is completely inept as well. Many did not think Obamacare would work and the oppurtunities to win the election were there, but instead of focusing on it and other economic issues that undecideds really care about they continued to campaign on social issues as well, which they are really bad at.
I don't think they could. The idiots nominated a candidate (Romney) whose signature acheivement as Governor of Mass. was the prgram obamacare was styled after.

Now whether it was or not doesn't matter; the Obama campaign successfully neutered the Romney camp and GOP from criticism. In essence, the GOP endorsed Obamacare!!!

And people wonder why the Tea party exists.
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Old 11-13-2013, 10:49 AM   #104
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I don't think they could. The idiots nominated a candidate (Romney) whose signature acheivement as Governor of Mass. was the prgram obamacare was styled after.
Want to know what the key differences are there?

1. Romneycare was not an unmitigated disaster. He actually knew how to plan and implement something.

2. Romney saw that this would not work on a national level and held that position throughout the campaign.

It's a testament to how effectively the media hypnotizes people that things like the above post are said.

The Democrats threw off any and all input from the Republican party, this whole thing played out exactly as the Republicans said it would, they tried to stop it and failed, and now the media has drones ready to blame the Republicans for the failure of a program they predicted would fail and which they tried to stop beforehand.
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Old 11-13-2013, 11:35 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by mr. tegu View Post
I would add a third option.

3. The GOP is completely inept as well. Many did not think Obamacare would work and the oppurtunities to win the election were there, but instead of focusing on it and other economic issues that undecideds really care about they continued to campaign on social issues as well, which they are really bad at.
Please. It's beyond ridiculous to blame Republicans who opposed this law from the beginning and who didn't cast a single vote in favor of it. The GOP may have taken an unforced error in terms of winning some elections *subsequent to the passage of Obamacare*, but they have zero culpability for the law itself and they had no ability to stop it.
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