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Old 11-12-2013, 04:53 PM  
BigRedChief BigRedChief is offline
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You should be able to keep yout health care plan.

Clinton is right. Obama needs to man up and work with the Republicans in the house and senate.

Produce a bill that exempts current health care plans from following Obamacare guidelines.

Thats what was sold to the public...........you like your health care plan, you can keep it.

It's the right thing to do.


Now, employer provided insurance should never have happened, but it did. Employee provided insurance's days are numbered. It's going to die soon. Thats a totally separate issue from Obamacare.

Last edited by BigRedChief; 11-12-2013 at 05:03 PM..
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Old 11-13-2013, 12:41 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
Clinton is right. Obama needs to man up and work with the Republicans in the house and senate.

Produce a bill that exempts current health care plans from following Obamacare guidelines.

Thats what was sold to the public...........you like your health care plan, you can keep it.

It's the right thing to do.


Now, employer provided insurance should never have happened, but it did. Employee provided insurance's days are numbered. It's going to die soon. Thats a totally separate issue from Obamacare.
No, you voted for the piece of shit so now you can just suck it.
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Old 11-13-2013, 02:01 PM   #107
mr. tegu mr. tegu is offline
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Please. It's beyond ridiculous to blame Republicans who opposed this law from the beginning and who didn't cast a single vote in favor of it. The GOP may have taken an unforced error in terms of winning some elections *subsequent to the passage of Obamacare*, but they have zero culpability for the law itself and they had no ability to stop it.
If a law that so many could see would not be as advertised wasn't able to be stopped, then that speaks to my point about their ineptness. Seriously, if it was so obvious shouldn't they have been able to campaign against it more effectively? Convince people of this? Get some undecideds on their side? Did they do their due diligence in warning the public during the campaigns? (I really don't know) Isn't that the job of a politician?

If this was all so obvious from the beginning why couldn't they stop it? Was Obama that good at campaigning for it or was the GOP that bad at campaiging against it?
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Old 11-13-2013, 02:07 PM   #108
mr. tegu mr. tegu is offline
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Originally Posted by mlyonsd View Post
Uh, what social issues did Romney campaign on?
Campaign on is probably not accurate. But the GOP would be much better off not taking such hardened stances on issues such as same sex marriage that just seem to be battles that are already lost.

I know he said he would repeal Obamacare if elected, but was the reasoning for this ever really established? Such as warnings of what would happen and why it wouldn't work? I really don't know how well that message got out. It just seems that if was so obvious the message should have been louder and more effective.
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Old 11-13-2013, 02:25 PM   #109
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I am probably coming from a different perspective than a lot of people. Really the only thing in this election that had a direct impact on me was Obamacare. Everything else was really just noise to me, which is why I voted Romney. I just wonder how many people out there who voted Obama did so because they were voting against Romney and the GOP stance on social issues more so than they were voting for Obama. I was able to reconcile my differences with them on those things but I imagine there are many who could not but could have been swayed to do so.
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Old 11-13-2013, 02:29 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. tegu View Post
If a law that so many could see would not be as advertised wasn't able to be stopped, then that speaks to my point about their ineptness. Seriously, if it was so obvious shouldn't they have been able to campaign against it more effectively? Convince people of this? Get some undecideds on their side? Did they do their due diligence in warning the public during the campaigns? (I really don't know) Isn't that the job of a politician?

If this was all so obvious from the beginning why couldn't they stop it? Was Obama that good at campaigning for it or was the GOP that bad at campaiging against it?
Because you are too stupid to listen objectively.

Obama said it, he is black and a Democrat and he went to church with a really nice Pastor, how could he lie?
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Old 11-13-2013, 02:35 PM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. tegu View Post
If a law that so many could see would not be as advertised wasn't able to be stopped, then that speaks to my point about their ineptness. Seriously, if it was so obvious shouldn't they have been able to campaign against it more effectively? Convince people of this? Get some undecideds on their side? Did they do their due diligence in warning the public during the campaigns? (I really don't know) Isn't that the job of a politician?

If this was all so obvious from the beginning why couldn't they stop it? Was Obama that good at campaigning for it or was the GOP that bad at campaiging against it?
They passed it using procedural trickery. They passed it without a single Republican vote.

What more do you want?
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Old 11-13-2013, 02:40 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by Calcountry View Post
Because you are too stupid to listen objectively.

Obama said it, he is black and a Democrat and he went to church with a really nice Pastor, how could he lie?
Read the post above you moron. So tell me, who is the one incapable of objectivity?
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Old 11-13-2013, 02:41 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
They passed it using procedural trickery. They passed it without a single Republican vote.

What more do you want?
I am talking about the presidential election. Romney said he would repeal it, but did he really do the best he could to explain why that was the best option? Honest question because I don't know how hard they pushed that.
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Old 11-13-2013, 02:49 PM   #114
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Well...now that the numbers are officially out, we can start to see just how horribly awful this is. According to the HHS report, the number is 106,000 people in the first month.

Let's break that number down a little more. It isn't 106k that have actually purchased and paid for a plan, but the number of people who have put a plan in their "shopping cart". Unbelievable.

So extrapolated out the the confirmed and growing number of cancellations thus far, we have exactly 2 people thinking of buying a plan for every 100 that have lost their plans. Bravo!
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Old 11-13-2013, 02:57 PM   #115
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The ACA propaganda is reminding me of Baghdad Bob. Can we just rename Pres Obama ACA Barry?
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Old 11-13-2013, 03:00 PM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. tegu View Post
If a law that so many could see would not be as advertised wasn't able to be stopped, then that speaks to my point about their ineptness. Seriously, if it was so obvious shouldn't they have been able to campaign against it more effectively? Convince people of this? Get some undecideds on their side? Did they do their due diligence in warning the public during the campaigns? (I really don't know) Isn't that the job of a politician?

If this was all so obvious from the beginning why couldn't they stop it? Was Obama that good at campaigning for it or was the GOP that bad at campaiging against it?
You can't hold the people who voted no responsible for the people who voted yes. Normally, you seem pretty level headed even if I don't always agree, but that's retarded.

This wasn't a referendum where the opinion of the public was dispositive. The people of Massachusetts elected a Republican Senator for the first time in forever largely because they didn't want this law to pass, but that didn't stop democrats from pushing it through anyway.

The democrats had a majority in both houses. Not a single Republican vote was cast for this thing, including Republicans like Susan Collins and Olympia Snowe who frequently vote with dems.
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Old 11-13-2013, 03:01 PM   #117
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It's like when some Deomcrats counted jobs that would have been lost as jobs created.
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Old 11-13-2013, 03:03 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by mr. tegu View Post
I am talking about the presidential election. Romney said he would repeal it, but did he really do the best he could to explain why that was the best option? Honest question because I don't know how hard they pushed that.
The Presidential election of 2012 was about a lot more than Obamacare. In the end, a lot of people voted against the white, rich guy because the democrats ran a class warfare campaign. President Obama largely avoided the subject of Obamacare. Some opponents of Obamacare were skeptical of Mitt Romney due to his connection to Romneycare in Massachusetts. Republicans only had predictions that were met by democrat lies to work with. They didn't have ammunition in the form of actual dysfunction and proof that the lies were lies that they have today.

It's only mildly less retarded to think that the election of 2012 was a referendum on Obamacare than it is to think that Republicans should have prevented it's passage in the first place.
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Old 11-13-2013, 03:08 PM
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Old 11-13-2013, 03:14 PM   #119
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I wonder how many of the 106k signed up are also receiving a subsidy.
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Old 11-13-2013, 03:19 PM   #120
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
The Presidential election of 2012 was about a lot more than Obamacare. In the end, a lot of people voted against the white, rich guy because the democrats ran a class warfare campaign. President Obama largely avoided the subject of Obamacare. Some opponents of Obamacare were skeptical of Mitt Romney due to his connection to Romneycare in Massachusetts. Republicans only had predictions that were met by democrat lies to work with. They didn't have ammunition in the form of actual dysfunction and proof that the lies were lies that they have today.
It's only mildly less retarded to think that the election of 2012 was a referendum on Obamacare than it is to think that Republicans should have prevented it's passage in the first place.
That makes sense. But to me it is the job of the politicians to make those lies known, and explain why they are lies. I just find it hard to believe it couldn't have been done better. Do you think Romney could have won the election by getting more voters against Obamacare? I realize this puts a lot of importance on one issue but it seems to be quite a large one.
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