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Old 11-12-2013, 03:53 PM  
BigRedChief BigRedChief is online now
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You should be able to keep yout health care plan.

Clinton is right. Obama needs to man up and work with the Republicans in the house and senate.

Produce a bill that exempts current health care plans from following Obamacare guidelines.

Thats what was sold to the public...........you like your health care plan, you can keep it.

It's the right thing to do.


Now, employer provided insurance should never have happened, but it did. Employee provided insurance's days are numbered. It's going to die soon. Thats a totally separate issue from Obamacare.

Last edited by BigRedChief; 11-12-2013 at 04:03 PM..
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Old 11-13-2013, 02:22 PM   #121
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Originally Posted by mr. tegu View Post
That makes sense. But to me it is the job of the politicians to make those lies known, and explain why they are lies. I just find it hard to believe it couldn't have been done better.
I'm sure it could have been done better. Obama's campaign was clearly better than Romney's, given the fact that he prevailed under circumstances that should have torpedoed any chance at re-election. But I don't see that as any reason to divert even an iota of blame away from the people who are 100% responsible for passing this law and who have been lying about many of the key aspects of it from the beginning.
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Old 11-13-2013, 02:25 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by mr. tegu View Post
That makes sense. But to me it is the job of the politicians to make those lies known, and explain why they are lies. I just find it hard to believe it couldn't have been done better. Do you think Romney could have won the election by getting more voters against Obamacare? I realize this puts a lot of importance on one issue but it seems to be quite a large one.
My Gosh! How could they? The libs/dems/statists own the information culture in America these days, that includes the entertainment industry, local & national TV news as well as the newspapers, academia and the educations systems and also the Dem party & the government itself. It's right in front of people's eyes that this information culture pushes it's own agenda. These places are dominated by libs/progs/dems/statists. I've pretty much given up because so many people in America have swallowed what this culture has brought and it's pretty much a disaster. Maybe, just maybe people will start to wake the **** up.

TGI
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Old 11-13-2013, 02:27 PM   #123
mr. tegu mr. tegu is offline
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
I'm sure it could have been done better. Obama's campaign was clearly better than Romney's, given the fact that he prevailed under circumstances that should have torpedoed any chance at re-election. But I don't see that as any reason to divert even an iota of blame away from the people who are 100% responsible for passing this law and who have been lying about many of the key aspects of it from the beginning.
I am not trying to divert blame, but isn't this kind of an admission to what I have been saying? That the the oppurtunity was there to do it better? I had edited my last post -Do you think Romney could have won the election by getting more voters against Obamacare? I realize this puts a lot of importance on one issue but it seems to be quite a large one. Or do you think the other issues and demographics in favor of Obama were just too great to overcome? (in reality this is probably my guess).
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Old 11-13-2013, 02:39 PM   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. tegu View Post
I am not trying to divert blame, but isn't this kind of an admission to what I have been saying? That the the oppurtunity was there to do it better? I had edited my last post -Do you think Romney could have won the election by getting more voters against Obamacare? I realize this puts a lot of importance on one issue but it seems to be quite a large one. Or do you think the other issues and demographics in favor of Obama were just too great to overcome? (in reality this is probably my guess).
Romney was a weak option and the me generation is going to pick the Santa Clause option every time anyway~
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Old 11-13-2013, 02:48 PM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. tegu View Post
I am not trying to divert blame, but isn't this kind of an admission to what I have been saying? That the the oppurtunity was there to do it better? I had edited my last post -Do you think Romney could have won the election by getting more voters against Obamacare? I realize this puts a lot of importance on one issue but it seems to be quite a large one. Or do you think the other issues and demographics in favor of Obama were just too great to overcome? (in reality this is probably my guess).
No, it's not an admission to what you said. You said that Republicans were completely inept and that's a 3rd candidate for why we have Obamacare now.

1. "Admitting" that the Republican campaign probably could have done a better job is a million miles from admitting that they were completely inept. Obama could have done a better job too. He had a horrible first debate. It's a rare case when improvement isn't possible.

2. Even if Romney had been elected, it's not clear that he could have repealed Obamacare immediately. Are we now supposed to blame Republicans for not running a good enough campaign to win the Senate too?

Your angle on this is preposterous. No, I'm doing the opposite of admitting what you've been saying. I'm still highly critical of what you've been saying.
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Old 11-13-2013, 02:50 PM   #126
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Originally Posted by RNR View Post
Romney was a weak option and the me generation is going to pick the Santa Clause option every time anyway~
In that case, Republicans are to blame for nominating the wrong guy.

And if the entire field was filled with people that would have had trouble beating Obama, then Republicans are to blame for not getting a better candidate to run.

And if they just didn't have an adequately attractive potential candidate, then Republicans are to blame for not recruiting and grooming such a candidate.

No matter what, Republicans are at fault for Obamacare and it's failures. Please get with the program.
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Old 11-13-2013, 03:00 PM   #127
mr. tegu mr. tegu is offline
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
No, it's not an admission to what you said. You said that Republicans were completely inept and that's a 3rd candidate for why we have Obamacare now.

1. "Admitting" that the Republican campaign probably could have done a better job is a million miles from admitting that they were completely inept. Obama could have done a better job too. He had a horrible first debate. It's a rare case when improvement isn't possible.

2. Even if Romney had been elected, it's not clear that he could have repealed Obamacare immediately. Are we now supposed to blame Republicans for not running a good enough campaign to win the Senate too?

Your angle on this is preposterous. No, I'm doing the opposite of admitting what you've been saying. I'm still highly critical of what you've been saying.
Hence the "kind of." That is why I was asking if you think that getting more voters against Obamacare could have won Romney the election. If you say yes, then yes they could have stopped it. If you say no, then there really was no stopping it in your opinion. Both are fine I am just curious what your thoughts are.
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Old 11-13-2013, 03:21 PM   #128
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They passed it using procedural trickery. They passed it without a single Republican vote.

What more do you want?
What was the procedural trickery? And please provide something to back up your assertion.
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Old 11-13-2013, 03:30 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
In that case, Republicans are to blame for nominating the wrong guy.

And if the entire field was filled with people that would have had trouble beating Obama, then Republicans are to blame for not getting a better candidate to run.

And if they just didn't have an adequately attractive potential candidate, then Republicans are to blame for not recruiting and grooming such a candidate.

No matter what, Republicans are at fault for Obamacare and it's failures. Please get with the program.
Probably this. It was maybe the worst, unelectable, crop of potential candidates ever assembled, ever. That Romney was the most electable among them--the only guy in the whole country who also signed a mandatory health insurance law--is kind of hilarious.

You should have let them know you were available.
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Old 11-13-2013, 03:34 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by The_Grand_Illusion View Post
My Gosh! How could they? The libs/dems/statists own the information culture in America these days, that includes the entertainment industry, local & national TV news as well as the newspapers, academia and the educations systems and also the Dem party & the government itself. It's right in front of people's eyes that this information culture pushes it's own agenda. These places are dominated by libs/progs/dems/statists. I've pretty much given up because so many people in America have swallowed what this culture has brought and it's pretty much a disaster. Maybe, just maybe people will start to wake the **** up.

TGI
^^This ^^
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Old 11-13-2013, 03:34 PM   #131
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Rs: "We hate mandatory health insurance! It is the end of civilization!"

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Rs: "Great idea!"
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Old 11-13-2013, 03:36 PM   #132
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It's the right thing to do.
You seriously believe this carries any weight with this man or his administration? Biggest liar in the history of the office and he's far from done.
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Old 11-13-2013, 04:01 PM   #133
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You seriously believe this carries any weight with this man or his administration? Biggest liar in the history of the office and he's far from done.
You BET he's far from done!

Obama Has Just Implemented a Plan for Government Control Over America’s Resources
using an Executive Order no less! This is fascism.


http://www.lewrockwell.com/2013/11/g...scist-state-2/

Like I said. Obama is a red!
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Old 11-13-2013, 04:44 PM   #134
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If a law that so many could see would not be as advertised wasn't able to be stopped, then that speaks to my point about their ineptness. Seriously, if it was so obvious shouldn't they have been able to campaign against it more effectively? Convince people of this? Get some undecideds on their side? Did they do their due diligence in warning the public during the campaigns? (I really don't know) Isn't that the job of a politician?

If this was all so obvious from the beginning why couldn't they stop it? Was Obama that good at campaigning for it or was the GOP that bad at campaiging against it?
Demographics have shifted. Elections aren't about issues anymore. They are about handouts.
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Old 11-13-2013, 04:48 PM   #135
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By the way Big Red Chief, did you sign your family up for Obamacare?
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