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Old 11-20-2013, 04:01 PM  
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Old 11-21-2013, 03:15 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
So did members of US intelligence at the time. THE USA SUPPORTED THE NAZIS!!!! The amount of anti-catholic ignorance here is amazing.
My disdain for organized religion is not focused only on the Catholic church. I missed the part where US intelligence claimed to be guided by the Vicar of Christ~
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Old 11-21-2013, 03:39 PM   #32
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Where do Al Gore's books go?

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Old 11-21-2013, 03:40 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by WhiteWhale View Post
Hitler was roman catholic and the roman catholic church endorsed his actions.

I'm so sick of everyone side-stepping that fact.
That's a very lazy analysis of that time period. The Nazis were quite unpopular with Catholic Voters (who didn't support them) and overtly appealed to the Lutheran portion of the country which was quite anti-semitic as you'd note if you read Luther's works.



Here's a good visual. Germany by religion (darker = more Catholic):



Germany by vote (darker = more Nazi)
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Old 11-21-2013, 04:27 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RNR View Post
The catholic church facilitated the escape of know Nazi war criminals and that is a fact~
I showed you in an earlier post how that is nothing but a LIE and non-fact.
I've researched this matter pretty thoroughly and provided quotes from Jewish leaders saying the opposite. yet, you're as bad as someone like cosmos when show such data.Why?

It's a rumor that originates from the communist left. You side with strange folks sometimes.
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Old 11-21-2013, 04:28 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
So did members of US intelligence at the time. THE USA SUPPORTED THE NAZIS!!!! The amount of anti-catholic ignorance here is amazing.
Catholic-bashing is alive and well in America.
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Old 11-21-2013, 04:33 PM   #36
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is online now
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Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
Where do Al Gore's books go?

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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Assuming you were trying to insult me, how does this make sense?
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Old 11-21-2013, 04:33 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteWhale View Post
Hitler was roman catholic and the roman catholic church endorsed his actions.

I'm so sick of everyone side-stepping that fact.
No one is side stepping this. It's just NOT a fact. And Hitler had a Catholic mother but he didn't really practice his religion for he no longer participated in the sacraments after childhood. He repeatedly said Naziism was secular and even founded in science. ( Fishing Rod's kinda science)

Sociopaths exist in all religions...even atheism has them. Like atheist communism which killed hundreds of millions more than Hitler. They are historically the worst of the bunch. So I call it statism as the religion.
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Old 11-21-2013, 04:39 PM   #38
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Old 11-21-2013, 04:47 PM   #39
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To my knowledge, historians have debated Hitler's real religious beliefs and I don't think there was a clear idea. But this is what Wiki says:
It is generally accepted by historians that Hitler's post war and long term goal was the eradication of Christianity in Germany.The adult Hitler did not believe in the Judeo-Christian notion of God, though various scholars consider his final religious position may have been a form of deism. Others consider him "atheist". The question of atheism is debated, however reputable Hitler biographers Ian Kershaw, Joachim Fest and Alan Bullock agree Hitler was anti-Christian. This view is evidenced in sources such as the Goebbels Diaries, the memoirs of Albert Speer, and the transcripts edited by Martin Bormann which are contained within Hitler's Table Talk, an influential translation of which was completed by historian Hugh Trevor-Roper.

More in link about how he moved against the RCC too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religio...f_Adolf_Hitler
Also, top Nazis were into the occult.
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Old 11-21-2013, 04:53 PM   #40
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Geezaz! Hitler couldn't be a Christian. That calls for worshipping a Jew. Back in the time of Christ, it was just a group of Jews. There weren't any Christians.
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Old 11-21-2013, 04:53 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
To my knowledge, historians have debated Hitler's real religious beliefs and I don't think there was a clear idea. But this is what Wiki says:
It is generally accepted by historians that Hitler's post war and long term goal was the eradication of Christianity in Germany.The adult Hitler did not believe in the Judeo-Christian notion of God, though various scholars consider his final religious position may have been a form of deism. Others consider him "atheist". The question of atheism is debated, however reputable Hitler biographers Ian Kershaw, Joachim Fest and Alan Bullock agree Hitler was anti-Christian. This view is evidenced in sources such as the Goebbels Diaries, the memoirs of Albert Speer, and the transcripts edited by Martin Bormann which are contained within Hitler's Table Talk, an influential translation of which was completed by historian Hugh Trevor-Roper.

More in link about how he moved against the RCC too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religio...f_Adolf_Hitler
Also, top Nazis were into the occult.

He did, however, reference his Christian beliefs in documented speeches.
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Old 11-21-2013, 04:58 PM   #42
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He did, however, reference his Christian beliefs in documented speeches.
So did Lincoln, who was really a closet atheist per some. He used it for political cover. But the wiki link covers that on Hitler too:

In his semi-autobiographical Mein Kampf, Hitler makes religious allusions, but declares himself neutral in sectarian matters and supportive of the separation between church and state, while criticizing political Catholicism. He presents a nihilistic vision, in which the universe is ordered around principles of struggle between weak and strong, rather than on conventional Christian notions long prominent in Germany.

While campaigning for office in the early 1930s, Hitler offered moderate public statements on Christianity, promising not to interfere with the churches if given power, and calling Christianity the foundation of German morality. In power, the Hitler regime conducted a protracted Struggle with the Churches.

Hitler moved to eliminate political Catholicism, while agreeing a Reich concordat with the Holy See which promised autonomy for the Catholic Church in Germany. Hitler then routinely violated the treaty, moved to close all Catholic organizations that weren't strictly religious, and permitted a persecution of the Catholic Church. He launched an effort to co-ordinate German Protestants under a unified Protestant Reich Church under the Deutsche Christen movement, but the attempt failed and was resisted by the Confessing Church.

He angered the churches by appointing the neo-pagan Alfred Rosenberg as official Nazi ideologist, and generally permitted or encouraged anti-church radicals such as Himmler, Goebells and Bormann to conduct their persecutions of the churches.

Smaller religious minorities faced far harsher repression, with the Jews of Germany expelled for extermination on the grounds of racist ideology and Jehovah's Witnesses ruthlessly persecuted for refusing military service, and any allegiance to Hitlerism.
Hitler's brand of left-wing ideology calls for total allegiance to the state. So the above all makes sense.
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Old 11-21-2013, 05:02 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
So did Lincoln, who was really a closet atheist per some. He used it for political cover. But the wiki link covers that on Hitler too:

In his semi-autobiographical Mein Kampf, Hitler makes religious allusions, but declares himself neutral in sectarian matters and supportive of the separation between church and state, while criticizing political Catholicism. He presents a nihilistic vision, in which the universe is ordered around principles of struggle between weak and strong, rather than on conventional Christian notions long prominent in Germany.

While campaigning for office in the early 1930s, Hitler offered moderate public statements on Christianity, promising not to interfere with the churches if given power, and calling Christianity the foundation of German morality. In power, the Hitler regime conducted a protracted Struggle with the Churches.

Hitler moved to eliminate political Catholicism, while agreeing a Reich concordat with the Holy See which promised autonomy for the Catholic Church in Germany. Hitler then routinely violated the treaty, moved to close all Catholic organizations that weren't strictly religious, and permitted a persecution of the Catholic Church. He launched an effort to co-ordinate German Protestants under a unified Protestant Reich Church under the Deutsche Christen movement, but the attempt failed and was resisted by the Confessing Church.

He angered the churches by appointing the neo-pagan Alfred Rosenberg as official Nazi ideologist, and generally permitted or encouraged anti-church radicals such as Himmler, Goebells and Bormann to conduct their persecutions of the churches.

Smaller religious minorities faced far harsher repression, with the Jews of Germany expelled for extermination on the grounds of racist ideology and Jehovah's Witnesses ruthlessly persecuted for refusing military service, and any allegiance to Hitlerism.
Hitler's brand of left-wing ideology calls for total allegiance to the state. So the above all makes sense.
Check this out:

Through subterfuge and concealment, many of today's Church leaders and faithful Christians have camouflaged the Christianity of Adolf Hitler and have attempted to mark him an atheist, a pagan cult worshipper, or a false Christian. However, from the earliest formation of the Nazi party and throughout the period of conquest and growth, Hitler expressed his Christian support to the German citizenry and soldiers. In the 1920s, Hitler's German Workers' Party (pre Nazi term) adopted a "Programme" with twenty-five points (the Nazi version of a constitution). In point twenty-four, their intent clearly demonstrates, from the very beginning, their stand in favor of a "positive" Christianity:
24. We demand liberty for all religious denominations in the State, so far as they are not a danger to it and do not militate against the morality and moral sense of the German race. The Party, as such, stands for positive Christianity, but does not bind itself in the matter of creed to any particular confession. It combats the Jewish-materialist spirit within and without us, and is convinced that our nation can achieve permanent health from within only on the principle: the common interest before self-interest.
Hitler's speeches and proclamations, even more clearly, reveal his faith and feelings toward a Christianized Germany. Nazism presents an embarrassment to Christianity and demonstrates the danger of faith. The following words from Hitler show his disdain for atheism, and pagan cults, and reveals the strength of his Christian feelings:

http://nobeliefs.com/speeches.htm
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Old 11-21-2013, 05:03 PM   #44
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My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before in the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice.... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.... When I go out in the morning and see these men standing in their queues and look into their pinched faces, then I believe I would be no Christian, but a very devil if I felt no pity for them, if I did not, as did our Lord two thousand years ago, turn against those by whom to-day this poor people is plundered and exploited. -Adolf Hitler, in his speech in Munich on 12 April 1922

[Note, "brood of vipers" appears in Matt. 3:7 & 12:34. John 2:15 depicts Jesus driving out the money changers (adders) from the temple. The word "adders" also appears in Psalms 140:3]
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Old 11-21-2013, 05:04 PM   #45
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Like I said, there's many views on Hitler's religion with little agreement. I'll go with it being unclear. That quote bears out what the wiki link said, that it he views Christ as a "fighter." Those statements are not Christianity. Obviously, doing what he did is not even remotely practicing Christianity. And anyone can say something religious and be a phony about it. Like 2% of Catholic priests have shown.

That quote is dated 1922 too.
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