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Old 11-21-2013, 12:34 PM  
HonestChieffan HonestChieffan is online now
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Nuclear option by Reid

I know why he is doing this but I cannot see this being good for democrats. Its as if he and Obama will watch the majority crash and burn as long as Obama gets his way till midterms. Or maybe they have the numbers that show the Rs will have House and Sennate after midterms and they only have a year to do all the damage they can.
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Old 11-21-2013, 03:24 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
I guess we'll see about that... I don't think it will be too long before we do...
I doubt it. Of course having the Senate decide to be a bit more like the House wouldn't be the end of the world.
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Old 11-21-2013, 03:28 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter View Post
Senate approval by 60 votes for laws, treaties, and other actions remains a legitimate mechanism for ensuring minority rights to prevent tyranny of a majority. Senate approval by 60 votes for OPEN jobs has always been patently stupid; it has become precisely what we know it would be under such a system--a mechanism for the minority party to entrench themselves as petulant obstructionists. Period.

The difference is the first promotes a legitimate debate, even if it is frustrating at times, over substance and policy; the latter is merely a means of "taking your ball home" or throwing a temper tantrum, not aimed at substance or policy...but to prevent legitimate government business from being conducted.

The idea this is a "nuclear option" is histrionic hyperbole aimed at preserving obstructionist's "right" for throwing a temper tantrum over precisely WHO ought to be hired for certain jobs. It's just another example of politicians choosing to act as petulant and spoiled brats and refusing to be adults. SUrprise, surprise.
I agree for the most part. I have never understood for example how 1 Senator could put a hold on a nominee and derail the whole thing, even if that nominee had 99-1 support. It is stupid as hell and makes zero sense.
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Old 11-21-2013, 04:06 PM   #33
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Seriously. Obama can get ****ed. Check out what he said to Congress in 2005.

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/obama-in-...nly-get-worse/

'In 2005, when Democrats were scrambling to halt Republicans in Congress from amending the rules of the filibuster to prevent the minority party from blocking President George W. Bush’s judicial nominees, a number of Democratic officeholders cheering the passage of the “nuclear option” once railed against it. President Barack Obama, then a first year senator, told his colleagues on the floor that partisanship in Washington would only get worse if the GOP resorted to the “nuclear option.”

“The threat to change Senate rules is a raw abuse of power and will destroy the very checks and balances our founding fathers put in place to prevent absolute power by any one branch of government,” said Sen. Harry Reid in 2005.

RELATED: Harry Reid Railed Against Nuclear Option in 2005 He Embraces in 2013

He was joined by President Obama. “I sense that talk of the nuclear option is more about power than about fairness,” Obama said in an April, 2005 speech in the Senate. “I believe some of my colleagues propose this rules change because they can get away with it rather than because they know it’s good for our democracy.”

In a clip of that speech, Obama warned that partisan gridlock would only be exacerbated by a rules change passed by the majority Republicans without Democratic consent.

“The American people want less partisanship in this town, but everyone in this chamber knows that if the majority chooses to end the filibuster – if they choose to change the rules and put an end to democratic debate – then the fighting and the bitterness and the gridlock will only get worse,” Obama said.'
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Old 11-21-2013, 04:10 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Vegas View Post
Seriously. Obama can get ****ed. Check out what he said to Congress in 2005.

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/obama-in-...nly-get-worse/

'In 2005, when Democrats were scrambling to halt Republicans in Congress from amending the rules of the filibuster to prevent the minority party from blocking President George W. Bush’s judicial nominees, a number of Democratic officeholders cheering the passage of the “nuclear option” once railed against it. President Barack Obama, then a first year senator, told his colleagues on the floor that partisanship in Washington would only get worse if the GOP resorted to the “nuclear option.”

“The threat to change Senate rules is a raw abuse of power and will destroy the very checks and balances our founding fathers put in place to prevent absolute power by any one branch of government,” said Sen. Harry Reid in 2005.

RELATED: Harry Reid Railed Against Nuclear Option in 2005 He Embraces in 2013

He was joined by President Obama. “I sense that talk of the nuclear option is more about power than about fairness,” Obama said in an April, 2005 speech in the Senate. “I believe some of my colleagues propose this rules change because they can get away with it rather than because they know it’s good for our democracy.”

In a clip of that speech, Obama warned that partisan gridlock would only be exacerbated by a rules change passed by the majority Republicans without Democratic consent.

“The American people want less partisanship in this town, but everyone in this chamber knows that if the majority chooses to end the filibuster – if they choose to change the rules and put an end to democratic debate – then the fighting and the bitterness and the gridlock will only get worse,” Obama said.'
So when tbe tables were turned both sides had a different story...both sides~
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Old 11-21-2013, 04:14 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by RNR View Post
So when tbe tables were turned both sides had a different story...both sides~
so its ok of dems to cry foul in 2005 but then do the very same thing they were against and now are for? that doesn't bother you?
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Old 11-21-2013, 04:26 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Johnny Vegas View Post
so its ok of dems to cry foul in 2005 but then do the very same thing they were against and now are for? that doesn't bother you?
Don'tcha know only Republicans are obstructionists--never Democrats. The Democrats have no fringe folks in Congress.
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Old 11-21-2013, 04:45 PM   #37
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We'll hear the shrill cries of the Democrats about this the very next time there's a Republican president.
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Old 11-21-2013, 04:54 PM   #38
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Remember a couple of things.

1. Politics were a lot different in 2005. There weren't as many unfilled seats, the filibuster wasn't as overused, and people didn't have Congress so much as they do now.

2. In response to Nixon's shenanigans, the Democrats insisted on the 'Special Prosecutor' law. A few years later, Ken Starr was appointed a Special Prosecutor under that same law to investigate Clinton. Just the same, this could later benefit the Republicans just as easily.

3. Didn't Boehner just unilaterally pass a House resolution so that only he could call for a vote, which could have ended the shutdown? This is nuclear, but not without a buildup.

Those said, I'm for anything that limits or even backtracks the power of the filibuster, although I honestly would have rather they reverted to when the filibuster-er needed to physically stand and talk. I think the biggest lure to its overuse is the ability to file an 'intent to filibuster' with the same effects.
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Old 11-21-2013, 04:55 PM   #39
Loneiguana Loneiguana is online now
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There is no parallel in History to the current obstructionism.

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Old 11-21-2013, 05:03 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Cochise View Post
We'll hear the shrill cries of the Democrats about this the very next time there's a Republican president.
Given the current state of the GOP and the demographic changes in the electorate, there probably will not be a Republican president for a while. That probably played at least some small part in going ahead with the nuclear option.
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Old 11-21-2013, 05:04 PM   #41
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Everyone seems to be missing the important takeaway here... All of these appointments on backorder have obviously CRUSHED our entire judicial system (and various other government entities) and debilitated the functioning of the entire US. Oh wait... yeah most people haven't noticed...

Time to seriously look at downsizing a huge chunk of the positions that we supposedly "have" to get filled.
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Old 11-21-2013, 05:06 PM   #42
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The federal judiciary is currently split evenly, with 390 GOP-appointed judges and 391 Democrat-appointed judges.

However, there are also 93 vacancies. Obama can now probably fill them all before the next election. He no longer has to care about trying to get 5 Republicans to agree on a judge, he only has to hold his own party together.
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Old 11-21-2013, 05:11 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
There is no parallel in History to the current obstructionism.

Well let's face it, we've never had a closet communist as a president either. This whole pattern is reminiscent of how Allende governed when one considers the workings around Congress with EO's.
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Old 11-21-2013, 05:37 PM   #44
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Everyone seems to be missing the important takeaway here... All of these appointments on backorder have obviously CRUSHED our entire judicial system (and various other government entities) and debilitated the functioning of the entire US. Oh wait... yeah most people haven't noticed...

Time to seriously look at downsizing a huge chunk of the positions that we supposedly "have" to get filled.
Yeah. Less judges.

Good call.
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Old 11-21-2013, 05:49 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
There is no parallel in History to the current obstructionism.

Right... Unprecedented. Here is the list that the Democrats blocked the last time around:


List of stalled, blocked or filibustered nominees[edit]

United States Court of Appeals for the First Circuit
Rhode Island seat vacated by Bruce M. Selya - William E. Smith (judgeship later filled by Obama nominee O. Rogeriee Thompson)
United States Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit
New York seat vacated by John M. Walker, Jr. - Debra Ann Livingston (Livingston was nominated by President Bush in June 2006 but not allowed to be confirmed by Senate Democrats until May 2007)
New York seat vacated by Chester J. Straub - Loretta A. Preska (judgeship later filled by Obama nominee Gerard E. Lynch)
United States Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit
New Jersey seat vacated by Samuel Alito - Shalom D. Stone (judgeship later filled by Obama nominee Joseph A. Greenaway, Jr.)
Pennsylvania seat vacated by Franklin Stuart Van Antwerpen - Gene E. K. Pratter, followed by Paul S. Diamond (judgeship later filled by Obama nominee Thomas I. Vanaskie)
United States Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit
Maryland seat vacated by Francis D. Murnaghan, Jr. - Claude Allen, followed by Rod J. Rosenstein (judgeship later filled by Obama nominee Andre M. Davis)
North Carolina seat vacated by James Dickson Phillips, Jr. - Terrence Boyle, followed by Robert J. Conrad (Boyle was nominated by President Bush in May 2001. After waiting six years, President Bush withdrew his nomination January 2007, making this 2001-2007 nomination the longest court of appeals nomination never processed by the Senate; Robert Conrad was nominated July 2007, but the Senate Democrats refused to process his nomination during the Democratic 110th Congress; judgeship later filled by Obama nominee James A. Wynn, Jr.)
South Carolina seat vacated by William Walter Wilkins - Steve A. Matthews (judgeship later filled by North Carolina Obama nominee Albert Diaz)
Virginia seat vacated by H. Emory Widener - William J. Haynes, II, followed by E. Duncan Getchell, followed by Glen E. Conrad (judgeship later filled by Obama nominee Barbara Milano Keenan)
United States Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit
Mississippi seat, converted from a Louisiana seat vacated by Henry Anthony Politz - Charles W. Pickering, followed by Michael B. Wallace, followed by Leslie H. Southwick (Pickering was filibustered by Senate Democrats and eventually withdrew his nomination; there was so much Democratic resistance to Wallace's nomination that it too was withdrawn; and Southwick was only confirmed due to the efforts of Democratic senator Dianne Feinstein)
Texas seat vacated by William Lockhart Garwood - Priscilla Owen (Owen was filibustered by Senate Democrats and only allowed to be confirmed under the terms of the Gang of 14 Deal)
United States Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit
Michigan seat vacated by James L. Ryan - Henry Saad, followed by Raymond Kethledge (Saad was filibustered by Senate Democrats; Kethledge was only confirmed after a deal in which failed Clinton nominee Helene White was allowed to replace Bush nominee Stephen J. Murphy III as a Sixth Circuit nominee)
Michigan seat vacated by Richard Suhrheinrich - David W. McKeague (McKeague was filibustered by Senate Democrats and only allowed to be confirmed under the terms of the Gang of 14 Deal)
Michigan seat vacated by Damon Keith - Richard Allen Griffin (Griffin was filibustered by Senate Democrats and only allowed to be confirmed under the terms of the Gang of 14 Deal)
Michigan seat vacated by Cornelia Groefsema Kennedy - Susan Bieke Neilson, followed by Stephen J. Murphy III, followed by failed Clinton nominee Helene White (Neilson was only confirmed three months prior to her death after a four-year battle over her nomination; Murphy's nomination was replaced by that of failed Clinton nominee Helene White at the behest of Democratic Michigan senator Carl Levin)
Ohio seat vacated by David Aldrich Nelson - Jeffrey S. Sutton (Senate Democrats refused to process his nomination during the Democratic 107th Congress and he was only confirmed once Republicans assumed control of the house in 2003)
Ohio seat vacated by Alan Norris - Deborah L. Cook (Senate Democrats refused to process her nomination during the Democratic 107th Congress and she was only confirmed once Republicans assumed control of the house in 2003)
United States Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit
Indiana seat vacated by Kenneth F. Ripple - Philip P. Simon (judgeship later filled by Obama nominee David Hamilton)
United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit
California seat vacated by James R. Browning - Carolyn Kuhl (Kuhl was filibustered by Senate Democrats and eventually withdrew her nomination; judgeship later filled by Bush nominee Sandra Segal Ikuta)
California seat vacated by Stephen S. Trott - N. Randy Smith (judgeship still open; Smith was later confirmed to the Ninth Circuit when he was renominated for an Idaho seat)
Idaho seat vacated by Thomas G. Nelson - William Gerry Myers III (Myers was filibustered by Senate Democrats; judgeship later filled by Bush nominee N. Randy Smith)
United States Court of Appeals for the Tenth Circuit
Oklahoma seat vacated by Stephanie Kulp Seymour - James H. Payne, followed by Jerome A. Holmes (Payne withdrew his nomination after allegations made by liberal organizations created the appearance of "extraordinary circumstances" which would not have allowed his confirmation under the terms of the Gang of 14 Deal; judgeship later filled by Bush nominee Jerome A. Holmes)
United States Court of Appeals for the Eleventh Circuit
Alabama seat vacated by Emmett Ripley Cox - William H. Steele, followed by William H. Pryor (Senate Democrats refused to process Steele's nomination during the Democratic 107th Congress and his nomination was withdrawn; Pryor was filibustered by Senate Democrats and was only allowed to be confirmed under the terms of the Gang of 14 Deal)
United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia
Miguel Estrada, to seat vacated by Patricia Wald (Estrada was nominated May 2001, but was filibustered by Senate Democrats and withdrew his nomination after waiting over two years in September 2003; judgeship later filled by Bush nominee Thomas B. Griffith, who was only allowed to be confirmed under the terms of the Gang of 14 Deal)
John Roberts, to seat vacated by James L. Buckley (Senate Democrats refused to process his nomination during the Democratic 107th Congress and he was only confirmed once Republicans assumed control of the Senate in 2003)
Janice Rogers Brown, to seat vacated by Stephen F. Williams (Brown was filibustered by Senate Democrats and was only allowed to be confirmed under the terms of the Gang of 14 Deal)
Brett Kavanaugh, to seat vacated by Laurence Silberman (Kavanaugh was initially stalled by Senate Democrats and was only allowed to be confirmed under the terms of the Gang of 14 Deal)
Peter Keisler, to seat vacated by John Roberts (President Bush nominated him June 2006, but Senate Democrats refused to process his nomination during the 109th and Democratic 110th Congress; judgeship still open)

Failed district court nominees[edit]

Bush nominated 23 people for 23 current or future federal district judgeships who never were confirmed by the U.S. Senate.[23] Like the appellate court nominations mentioned above, many of these nominees were blocked by Democrats in the Senate Judiciary Committee, which was controlled by the Democrats four out the eight years that Bush was in office. Twenty-one of these twenty-three nominees were blocked in the Democratic 110th Congress. Republicans claimed at the time that the Democrats were trying to keep these district court positions open for a future Democratic president to fill. Eventually, Bush declined to make nominations for 23 other current or future federal district judgeships in the 110th Congress.
Of the 23 federal district judgeship vacancies with actual nominees in place, 2 eventually were filled with a different Bush nominee, 14 so far have been filled with Barack Obama nominees, 4 remain open, 1 became moot when the district judge decided not to retire and 2 never ended up becoming vacant because the district judge who had it never received confirmation to be elevated to an appellate court. In addition, two of Bush's 23 failed district court nominees, Oregon's Marco Hernandez and Illinois' John J. Tharp,[24] were subsequently renominated by Obama to federal district judgeships. They both were confirmed in the 112th Congress.
The failed Bush district court nominees:
United States District Court for the District of Rhode Island
Lincoln D. Almond (judgeship later filled by Obama nominee John J. McConnell, Jr.)
United States District Court for the Northern District of New York
Mary Donohue, followed by Thomas Marcelle (judgeship later filled by Obama nominee Mae D'Agostino)
United States District Court for the Eastern District of Pennsylvania
Carolyn P. Short (judgeship was to become vacant when Judge Gene E. K. Pratter was elevated to the United States Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit but Pratter was forced to withdraw due to Democratic opposition and was replaced by Judge Paul S. Diamond.)
Carolyn P. Short (judgeship was to become vacant when Judge Paul S. Diamond was elevated to the United States Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit but Diamond never was confirmed to that post before Bush's presidency ended.)
United States District Court for the District of Delaware
Colm F. Connolly (judgeship later filled by Obama nominee Leonard Stark)
United States District Court for the Eastern District of North Carolina
Thomas Alvin Farr (judgeship still open)
United States District Court for the Eastern District of Virginia
David J. Novak (judgeship later filled by Obama nominee John A. Gibney, Jr.)
United States District Court for the Northern District of West Virginia
William J. Powell (judgeship later filled by Obama nominee Gina Marie Groh)
United States District Court for the Middle District of Louisiana
David R. Dugas (judgeship later filled by Obama nominee Brian Anthony Jackson)
United States District Court for the Southern District of Mississippi
J. Richard Barry (judgeship later filled by Obama nominee Carlton W. Reeves)
United States District Court for the Eastern District of Michigan
Daniel P. Ryan (judgeship later filled by Bush nominee Stephen Joseph Murphy III)
United States District Court for the Middle District of Tennessee
Gustavus Adolphus Puryear (judgeship later filled by Obama nominee Kevin Hunter Sharp)
United States District Court for the Northern District of Illinois
John J. Tharp (judgeship later filled by Obama nominee Sharon J. Coleman) (Nominated by Barack Obama on November 10, 2011 to a different seat on the Northern District and confirmed on May 14, 2012)
United States District Court for the Eastern District of Wisconsin
Timothy G. Dugan (judgeship vacancy became moot when Judge Rudolph T. Randa decided not to retire in January 2009)
United States District Court for the Western District of Wisconsin
J. Mac Davis (judgeship still open)
United States District Court for the Central District of California
James Edward Rogan (judgeship later filled by Obama nominee Jacqueline H. Nguyen)
United States District Court for the District of Hawaii
Frederick W. Rohlfing III (judgeship later filled by Bush nominee J. Michael Seabright)
United States District Court for the District of Oregon
Marco A. Hernandez (Nominated by Barack Obama on July 14, 2010 to the same position and confirmed on February 7, 2011)[25]
United States District Court for the District of Colorado
Gregory E. Goldberg (judgeship still open)
United States District Court for the District of Wyoming
Richard H. Honaker (judgeship later filled by Obama nominee Nancy D. Freudenthal)
United States District Court for the Middle District of Florida
William F. Jung (judgeship later filled by Obama nominee Charlene Edwards Honeywell)
United States District Court for the District of Columbia
Jeffrey Adam Rosen (judgeship later filled by Obama nominee James E. Boasberg)
Michael E. O'Neill (judgeship later filled by Obama nominee Amy Berman Jackson)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_..._controversies
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