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Old 11-21-2013, 12:34 PM  
HonestChieffan HonestChieffan is offline
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Nuclear option by Reid

I know why he is doing this but I cannot see this being good for democrats. Its as if he and Obama will watch the majority crash and burn as long as Obama gets his way till midterms. Or maybe they have the numbers that show the Rs will have House and Sennate after midterms and they only have a year to do all the damage they can.
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Old 11-21-2013, 05:51 PM   #46
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Old 11-21-2013, 06:02 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Yeah. Less judges.

Good call.
Wow, you have ZERO clue whether there are enough judges or even too many right now but your immediate reaction is LESS GOVT SPENDING IS TEH BADS!! Talk about a knee jerk partisan.
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Old 11-21-2013, 06:13 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
Wow, you have ZERO clue whether there are enough judges or even too many right now but your immediate reaction is LESS GOVT SPENDING IS TEH BADS!! Talk about a knee jerk partisan.
growing backlogs in federal courts and nearly endless delays for appeals to be heard would suggest that there aren't enough judges to handle the existing workload in an reasonably expeditious manner...

senior judges (essentially retired judges) have stayed on in many cases to help deal with the crushing backlogs...

judgeships should be filled as vacancies occur but i do worry about the effects of this change in terms of unqualified or grossly biased people being nominated and being confirmed on straight party line basis...

some nominations just suck and need to be defeated, but i don't know how that will work without filibusters...

i think the jury is out on this new rule...
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Old 11-21-2013, 06:16 PM   #49
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Perhaps, less laws would reduce the amount of cases?
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Old 11-21-2013, 06:21 PM   #50
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The first list includes those stalled or blocked. It adds up to 28, over eight years.

The second list is for district court nominees, and also includes those stalled or blocked. It adds up to 23, over eight years.

The graphic refers to only those filibustered, and adds up to 82, over five years - but, it doesn't specify whether those are only judicial appointments, or all appointments.

The point is, the only thing that makes those two big long lists seem more damning than the chart is that they're all typed out to be as long as possible. It's still unprecedented, literally.
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Old 11-21-2013, 06:27 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
Right... Unprecedented. Here is the list that the Democrats blocked the last time around:


List of stalled, blocked or filibustered nominees[edit]

United States Court of Appeals for the First Circuit
Rhode Island seat vacated by Bruce M. Selya - William E. Smith (judgeship later filled by Obama nominee O. Rogeriee Thompson)
United States Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit
New York seat vacated by John M. Walker, Jr. - Debra Ann Livingston (Livingston was nominated by President Bush in June 2006 but not allowed to be confirmed by Senate Democrats until May 2007)
New York seat vacated by Chester J. Straub - Loretta A. Preska (judgeship later filled by Obama nominee Gerard E. Lynch)
United States Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit
New Jersey seat vacated by Samuel Alito - Shalom D. Stone (judgeship later filled by Obama nominee Joseph A. Greenaway, Jr.)
Pennsylvania seat vacated by Franklin Stuart Van Antwerpen - Gene E. K. Pratter, followed by Paul S. Diamond (judgeship later filled by Obama nominee Thomas I. Vanaskie)
United States Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit
Maryland seat vacated by Francis D. Murnaghan, Jr. - Claude Allen, followed by Rod J. Rosenstein (judgeship later filled by Obama nominee Andre M. Davis)
North Carolina seat vacated by James Dickson Phillips, Jr. - Terrence Boyle, followed by Robert J. Conrad (Boyle was nominated by President Bush in May 2001. After waiting six years, President Bush withdrew his nomination January 2007, making this 2001-2007 nomination the longest court of appeals nomination never processed by the Senate; Robert Conrad was nominated July 2007, but the Senate Democrats refused to process his nomination during the Democratic 110th Congress; judgeship later filled by Obama nominee James A. Wynn, Jr.)
South Carolina seat vacated by William Walter Wilkins - Steve A. Matthews (judgeship later filled by North Carolina Obama nominee Albert Diaz)
Virginia seat vacated by H. Emory Widener - William J. Haynes, II, followed by E. Duncan Getchell, followed by Glen E. Conrad (judgeship later filled by Obama nominee Barbara Milano Keenan)
United States Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit
Mississippi seat, converted from a Louisiana seat vacated by Henry Anthony Politz - Charles W. Pickering, followed by Michael B. Wallace, followed by Leslie H. Southwick (Pickering was filibustered by Senate Democrats and eventually withdrew his nomination; there was so much Democratic resistance to Wallace's nomination that it too was withdrawn; and Southwick was only confirmed due to the efforts of Democratic senator Dianne Feinstein)
Texas seat vacated by William Lockhart Garwood - Priscilla Owen (Owen was filibustered by Senate Democrats and only allowed to be confirmed under the terms of the Gang of 14 Deal)
United States Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit
Michigan seat vacated by James L. Ryan - Henry Saad, followed by Raymond Kethledge (Saad was filibustered by Senate Democrats; Kethledge was only confirmed after a deal in which failed Clinton nominee Helene White was allowed to replace Bush nominee Stephen J. Murphy III as a Sixth Circuit nominee)
Michigan seat vacated by Richard Suhrheinrich - David W. McKeague (McKeague was filibustered by Senate Democrats and only allowed to be confirmed under the terms of the Gang of 14 Deal)
Michigan seat vacated by Damon Keith - Richard Allen Griffin (Griffin was filibustered by Senate Democrats and only allowed to be confirmed under the terms of the Gang of 14 Deal)
Michigan seat vacated by Cornelia Groefsema Kennedy - Susan Bieke Neilson, followed by Stephen J. Murphy III, followed by failed Clinton nominee Helene White (Neilson was only confirmed three months prior to her death after a four-year battle over her nomination; Murphy's nomination was replaced by that of failed Clinton nominee Helene White at the behest of Democratic Michigan senator Carl Levin)
Ohio seat vacated by David Aldrich Nelson - Jeffrey S. Sutton (Senate Democrats refused to process his nomination during the Democratic 107th Congress and he was only confirmed once Republicans assumed control of the house in 2003)
Ohio seat vacated by Alan Norris - Deborah L. Cook (Senate Democrats refused to process her nomination during the Democratic 107th Congress and she was only confirmed once Republicans assumed control of the house in 2003)
United States Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit
Indiana seat vacated by Kenneth F. Ripple - Philip P. Simon (judgeship later filled by Obama nominee David Hamilton)
United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit
California seat vacated by James R. Browning - Carolyn Kuhl (Kuhl was filibustered by Senate Democrats and eventually withdrew her nomination; judgeship later filled by Bush nominee Sandra Segal Ikuta)
California seat vacated by Stephen S. Trott - N. Randy Smith (judgeship still open; Smith was later confirmed to the Ninth Circuit when he was renominated for an Idaho seat)
Idaho seat vacated by Thomas G. Nelson - William Gerry Myers III (Myers was filibustered by Senate Democrats; judgeship later filled by Bush nominee N. Randy Smith)
United States Court of Appeals for the Tenth Circuit
Oklahoma seat vacated by Stephanie Kulp Seymour - James H. Payne, followed by Jerome A. Holmes (Payne withdrew his nomination after allegations made by liberal organizations created the appearance of "extraordinary circumstances" which would not have allowed his confirmation under the terms of the Gang of 14 Deal; judgeship later filled by Bush nominee Jerome A. Holmes)
United States Court of Appeals for the Eleventh Circuit
Alabama seat vacated by Emmett Ripley Cox - William H. Steele, followed by William H. Pryor (Senate Democrats refused to process Steele's nomination during the Democratic 107th Congress and his nomination was withdrawn; Pryor was filibustered by Senate Democrats and was only allowed to be confirmed under the terms of the Gang of 14 Deal)
United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia
Miguel Estrada, to seat vacated by Patricia Wald (Estrada was nominated May 2001, but was filibustered by Senate Democrats and withdrew his nomination after waiting over two years in September 2003; judgeship later filled by Bush nominee Thomas B. Griffith, who was only allowed to be confirmed under the terms of the Gang of 14 Deal)
John Roberts, to seat vacated by James L. Buckley (Senate Democrats refused to process his nomination during the Democratic 107th Congress and he was only confirmed once Republicans assumed control of the Senate in 2003)
Janice Rogers Brown, to seat vacated by Stephen F. Williams (Brown was filibustered by Senate Democrats and was only allowed to be confirmed under the terms of the Gang of 14 Deal)
Brett Kavanaugh, to seat vacated by Laurence Silberman (Kavanaugh was initially stalled by Senate Democrats and was only allowed to be confirmed under the terms of the Gang of 14 Deal)
Peter Keisler, to seat vacated by John Roberts (President Bush nominated him June 2006, but Senate Democrats refused to process his nomination during the 109th and Democratic 110th Congress; judgeship still open)

Failed district court nominees[edit]

Bush nominated 23 people for 23 current or future federal district judgeships who never were confirmed by the U.S. Senate.[23] Like the appellate court nominations mentioned above, many of these nominees were blocked by Democrats in the Senate Judiciary Committee, which was controlled by the Democrats four out the eight years that Bush was in office. Twenty-one of these twenty-three nominees were blocked in the Democratic 110th Congress. Republicans claimed at the time that the Democrats were trying to keep these district court positions open for a future Democratic president to fill. Eventually, Bush declined to make nominations for 23 other current or future federal district judgeships in the 110th Congress.
Of the 23 federal district judgeship vacancies with actual nominees in place, 2 eventually were filled with a different Bush nominee, 14 so far have been filled with Barack Obama nominees, 4 remain open, 1 became moot when the district judge decided not to retire and 2 never ended up becoming vacant because the district judge who had it never received confirmation to be elevated to an appellate court. In addition, two of Bush's 23 failed district court nominees, Oregon's Marco Hernandez and Illinois' John J. Tharp,[24] were subsequently renominated by Obama to federal district judgeships. They both were confirmed in the 112th Congress.
The failed Bush district court nominees:
United States District Court for the District of Rhode Island
Lincoln D. Almond (judgeship later filled by Obama nominee John J. McConnell, Jr.)
United States District Court for the Northern District of New York
Mary Donohue, followed by Thomas Marcelle (judgeship later filled by Obama nominee Mae D'Agostino)
United States District Court for the Eastern District of Pennsylvania
Carolyn P. Short (judgeship was to become vacant when Judge Gene E. K. Pratter was elevated to the United States Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit but Pratter was forced to withdraw due to Democratic opposition and was replaced by Judge Paul S. Diamond.)
Carolyn P. Short (judgeship was to become vacant when Judge Paul S. Diamond was elevated to the United States Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit but Diamond never was confirmed to that post before Bush's presidency ended.)
United States District Court for the District of Delaware
Colm F. Connolly (judgeship later filled by Obama nominee Leonard Stark)
United States District Court for the Eastern District of North Carolina
Thomas Alvin Farr (judgeship still open)
United States District Court for the Eastern District of Virginia
David J. Novak (judgeship later filled by Obama nominee John A. Gibney, Jr.)
United States District Court for the Northern District of West Virginia
William J. Powell (judgeship later filled by Obama nominee Gina Marie Groh)
United States District Court for the Middle District of Louisiana
David R. Dugas (judgeship later filled by Obama nominee Brian Anthony Jackson)
United States District Court for the Southern District of Mississippi
J. Richard Barry (judgeship later filled by Obama nominee Carlton W. Reeves)
United States District Court for the Eastern District of Michigan
Daniel P. Ryan (judgeship later filled by Bush nominee Stephen Joseph Murphy III)
United States District Court for the Middle District of Tennessee
Gustavus Adolphus Puryear (judgeship later filled by Obama nominee Kevin Hunter Sharp)
United States District Court for the Northern District of Illinois
John J. Tharp (judgeship later filled by Obama nominee Sharon J. Coleman) (Nominated by Barack Obama on November 10, 2011 to a different seat on the Northern District and confirmed on May 14, 2012)
United States District Court for the Eastern District of Wisconsin
Timothy G. Dugan (judgeship vacancy became moot when Judge Rudolph T. Randa decided not to retire in January 2009)
United States District Court for the Western District of Wisconsin
J. Mac Davis (judgeship still open)
United States District Court for the Central District of California
James Edward Rogan (judgeship later filled by Obama nominee Jacqueline H. Nguyen)
United States District Court for the District of Hawaii
Frederick W. Rohlfing III (judgeship later filled by Bush nominee J. Michael Seabright)
United States District Court for the District of Oregon
Marco A. Hernandez (Nominated by Barack Obama on July 14, 2010 to the same position and confirmed on February 7, 2011)[25]
United States District Court for the District of Colorado
Gregory E. Goldberg (judgeship still open)
United States District Court for the District of Wyoming
Richard H. Honaker (judgeship later filled by Obama nominee Nancy D. Freudenthal)
United States District Court for the Middle District of Florida
William F. Jung (judgeship later filled by Obama nominee Charlene Edwards Honeywell)
United States District Court for the District of Columbia
Jeffrey Adam Rosen (judgeship later filled by Obama nominee James E. Boasberg)
Michael E. O'Neill (judgeship later filled by Obama nominee Amy Berman Jackson)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_..._controversies

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Old 11-21-2013, 06:32 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
Wow, you have ZERO clue whether there are enough judges or even too many right now but your immediate reaction is LESS GOVT SPENDING IS TEH BADS!! Talk about a knee jerk partisan.
Do you? What we know is that there are vacancies that common sense says should be filled. Have the Rs protested the appointments for the reason of "there are too many judges?" No, they are blocking for the sake of blocking, and the outrageous rate they are doing so speaks for itself.
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Old 11-21-2013, 06:33 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
Right... Unprecedented. Here is the list that the Democrats blocked the last time around:


List of stalled, blocked or filibustered nominees[edit]



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_..._controversies
Um, thanks for that wall of text with no context or anything to compare it too.



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Old 11-21-2013, 06:35 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by go bowe View Post
growing backlogs in federal courts and nearly endless delays for appeals to be heard would suggest that there aren't enough judges to handle the existing workload in an reasonably expeditious manner...

senior judges (essentially retired judges) have stayed on in many cases to help deal with the crushing backlogs...

judgeships should be filled as vacancies occur but i do worry about the effects of this change in terms of unqualified or grossly biased people being nominated and being confirmed on straight party line basis...

some nominations just suck and need to be defeated, but i don't know how that will work without filibusters...

i think the jury is out on this new rule...
I actually read a report debunking a good deal of this... basically it showed that the effect of these vacancies was negligible. If I find some time I will try to dig it up.
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Old 11-21-2013, 06:37 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by go bowe View Post
some nominations just suck and need to be defeated, but i don't know how that will work without filibusters...

i think the jury is out on this new rule...

It won't work. It will only escalate. Only it won't contain itself to court appointees. They call it the nuclear option for a reason.

This is just the opening salvo of all out war. I don't expect the Democrats to stop here. Nor do I expect the Republicans to play nice once they get in. This is going to spread to laws. The question is who wins the Senate in 2016.
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Old 11-21-2013, 06:37 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
Do you? What we know is that there are vacancies that common sense says should be filled. Have the Rs protested the appointments for the reason of "there are too many judges?" No, they are blocking for the sake of blocking, and the outrageous rate they are doing so speaks for itself.
Do I KNOW, first hand. No. Have I read reports showing that these vacancies don't need to be filled but many need to simply go away? yes I have.

You are correct that the blocking is just partisan politics as usual... I am simply saying that now that we find ourselves here (regardless of reason) we may want to look at the big picture and whether these positions actually NEED to all be filled.
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Old 11-21-2013, 06:39 PM   #57
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Um, thanks for that wall of text with no context or anything to compare it too.



Speaking of no context, your graph doesn't provide any actual useful context because it doesn't show Bush appointments that Democrats blocked, but Obama renominated anyway. Nor does it give any context for how many were appointed at this time in each president's terms.

Basically, your graph is useless. I mean look at that thing... Here's how you can read it: Half way through Obama's two terms, he's managed to appoint half of the amount that these other presidents appointed in their full terms.

Great graph!
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Old 11-21-2013, 06:42 PM   #58
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I'd venture to say anyone nominated to be a judge by the two dumbest moronic lying attorneys in Obama and Holder should be filibustered.

That being said, a system that isn't working shouldn't be totally broken.

Obama could have easily gotten past this by making a deal with republicans. You pick half and I pick half. But we all know with Obama it's all about him so dealing with republicans is automatically out. Obama is the most Imperialistic president of all time.

Democrats opened up Pandora's box here and will only lead to more partisanship.
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Old 11-21-2013, 06:45 PM   #59
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I'd like to know what all these Ted Cruz bashing Republicans have to say about hard ball tactics now. The surrender caucus needs to get the hell out of the way and let the guys throwing the heat take their shots.
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Old 11-21-2013, 06:55 PM   #60
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: None of your business
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
I'd like to know what all these Ted Cruz bashing Republicans have to say about hard ball tactics now. The surrender caucus needs to get the hell out of the way and let the guys throwing the heat take their shots.
Even Fox is bashing those guys. O'Reilly in particular and his buddy Bernie--those who favor the Establishment and RINO's.
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