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Old 11-26-2013, 05:22 PM  
Amnorix Amnorix is offline
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Interesting Observation by TMQ

If anyone is unaware, Tuesday Morning Quarterback is an ESPN column written by a brilliant fellow who also loves football. His columns include both football analysis and political commentary.

Thought this discussion of Naval matters was interesting, though YMMV.


News from the blue water: Last week I asked if any reader knew the current vessels-to-admirals ratio of the once-mighty Royal Navy. Many readers, including Stephanie Cummings-White of Torqauy, England, suggested I should be asking instead for the admirals-to-vessels ratio, citing this 2008 story noting 41 admirals supervising 40 warships. Nathan Green of Hempstead, Long Island, suggested matters were worse, citing this 2013 story reporting the Royal Navy has "15 times more commanding officers than ships," with 260 captains and 40 admirals for 19 warships.

The "15 times more" story, from the Daily Mail, lists as warships only "major surface combatants" -- destroyers, frigates and the Queen's lone remaining flattop, a light aircraft carrier scheduled to be retired in 2014. The major-surface-combatants definition excludes support vessels plus the Royal Navy's strategic nuclear submarines, which bear far more destructive power than all the navies of the world combined during World War II. Paul Meka of Buffalo, N.Y., notes that in total, the Royal Navy has 79 commissioned ships, two vessels for each admiral. Yoni Appelbaum of Cambridge, Mass., compared this to the United States Navy, which has 331 admirals for 285 ships in commission, a worse H.M.S. Pinafore ratio than under the Union Jack.

In other nautical news, TMQ complains that the U.S. Navy names its capital ships after Republican presidents but not Democratic ones. Current supercarriers bear the names of modern Republican presidents Eisenhower, Reagan, George H.W. Bush and Gerald Ford. Of modern Democratic presidents, only Truman is represented, though the keel has been laid for a John Kennedy.

While Gerald Ford, who was never elected to national office, has his name on a supercarrier, Franklin Roosevelt, elected four times and who led the country during the world's worst war, has his name on only a destroyer. Jimmy Carter, who beat Ford at the polls, has his name on only an attack submarine. (Carter is the sole president to have served aboard a submarine, but elected presidents should outrank appointed presidents.) Lyndon Johnson, who brought about passage of the Civil Rights Act, Voting Rights Act, and the creation of Medicare and Medicaid, and who was winner of a landslide national election, will have his name on a new type of destroyer that's under construction at Bath Iron Works -- an important ship, but nowhere as important as the supercarrier that bears the name of the unelected partial-term Ford.

There is no ship named the Bill Clinton -- or perhaps, in naval naming convention, the William Jefferson Clinton -- though Clinton was a popular two-term president whose policies helped cause an economic boom and the retreat of the remnants of the Soviet Union. (Capital ships sometimes are named for the living, including the Reagan and the Bush.)

The Secretary of the Navy, a political appointee, is the key figure in ship names. Democratically appointed SecNavs have tended to reach across the aisle to honor the other side, a Clinton appointee choosing the name for the Reagan. Republican secretaries of the Navy chose Ford and Bush over Clinton, who won more presidential elections than Ford and Bush combined.

It's not like Democrats aren't represented. Supercarriers bear the names of Carl Vinson and John Stennis -- old-South Congressional Democrats who were ardent segregationists. Neither Vinson nor Stennis ever won a national election, nor served in the military; both fought to keep blacks and whites apart. Yet their names are on supercarriers, while FDR's name is on a destroyer.
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Old 11-26-2013, 07:10 PM   #2
mlyonsd mlyonsd is offline
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The only one that surprises me there is FDR.
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Old 11-26-2013, 09:32 PM   #3
tredadda tredadda is offline
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I thought there was a JFK carrier unless they decommissioned that one and are building a new one. The number of admirals is mind blowing. I am amazed how the Pentagon keeps trying to save money by cutting troops and tuition assistance while ignoring the grotesque number of flag officers in every branch. There are more generals in the Army now than in WWII. That should say something.
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Old 11-26-2013, 09:37 PM   #4
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I thought there was a JFK carrier unless they decommissioned that one and are building a new one. The number of admirals is mind blowing. I am amazed how the Pentagon keeps trying to save money by cutting troops and tuition assistance while ignoring the grotesque number of flag officers in every branch. There are more generals in the Army now than in WWII. That should say something.
Flag officers are the last thing you want to try and create in a crisis.
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Old 11-26-2013, 09:40 PM   #5
tredadda tredadda is offline
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Originally Posted by mlyonsd View Post
Flag officers are the last thing you want to try and create in a crisis.
We did more with fewer in wars such as WWII. There is literally no need for this many. Their salaries as well as the perks that come with their rank and their staff are extremely expensive and not necessary.
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Old 11-26-2013, 09:46 PM   #6
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We did more with fewer in wars such as WWII. There is literally no need for this many. Their salaries as well as the perks that come with their rank and their staff are extremely expensive and not necessary.
Cutting the hardware costs saves much more than cutting the software. If you really want to cut government waste we'd be better off looking elsewhere. Especially people like that dumb bitch from Kansas. She's proven we should rethink cabinet posts.

Anyway, the cheapest part of the military are the personnel.
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Old 11-26-2013, 09:48 PM   #7
tredadda tredadda is offline
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Cutting the hardware costs saves much more than cutting the software. If you really want to cut government waste we'd be better off looking elsewhere. Especially people like that dumb bitch from Kansas. She's proven we should rethink cabinet posts.

Anyway, the cheapest part of the military are the personnel.
Starting at the top where there are way too many.
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Old 11-26-2013, 09:52 PM   #8
mlyonsd mlyonsd is offline
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Starting at the top where there are way too many.
Probably going to just have to agree to disagree.
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Old 11-26-2013, 10:12 PM   #9
tredadda tredadda is offline
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Probably going to just have to agree to disagree.
Going to have to I guess as I see no way to justify having more admirals than ships.
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Old 11-26-2013, 10:27 PM   #10
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There are more Admirals than Captains serving on active ships?


WTF?
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Old 11-26-2013, 10:28 PM   #11
BigRedChief BigRedChief is offline
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Anyway, the cheapest part of the military are the personnel.
No shit.

We can start with the tanks the DOD doesn't even want. The 2nd airplane engine for every new plane built. Thats $7 BILLION right there.
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Old 11-26-2013, 10:31 PM   #12
Discuss Thrower Discuss Thrower is offline
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The more admirals than surface ships makes sense when you consider the amount of training facilities the Navy undoubtedly has.
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Old 11-26-2013, 10:32 PM   #13
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I honestly thought there were only a handful of Admirals in the Navy.


I thought wrong.
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Old 11-26-2013, 10:40 PM   #14
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Admiral is just a rank. You don't expect an admiral who is responsible for a logistics theater to actually be on a ship. Just like you don't expect an admiral in charge of a carrier strike group to be at the Pentagon.

Still, there is plenty of fat to be cut in the military.
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Old 11-26-2013, 10:58 PM   #15
tredadda tredadda is offline
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Admiral is just a rank. You don't expect an admiral who is responsible for a logistics theater to actually be on a ship. Just like you don't expect an admiral in charge of a carrier strike group to be at the Pentagon.

Still, there is plenty of fat to be cut in the military.
Admiral is just a rank like General, but a highly expensive rank after it is all said and done. The Pentagon can't seem to afford tuition assistance or the Stars and Stripes newspaper but can somehow afford a grotesque number of these flag officers.
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