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Old 11-27-2013, 10:04 AM  
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Question.

I had a very interesting discussion last night based off what the Pope said in his new paper, and I want to pose a hypothetical:

If you could end poverty in America right now for every single person in our country, with the push of a button, by capping the most a person could make at $100 million, would you do it?

I haven't done the math on that, but assume for the sake of the exercise that the math would work.

Also for the purposes of this exercise, assume this is feasible to accomplish. It's a magic button. I know the popular rebuttal will be "if we did that, billionaires would go elsewhere" -- however ask yourself if would you push the button if you were guaranteed that they wouldn't?

Why, or why not?
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Old 11-28-2013, 06:56 PM   #136
J Diddy J Diddy is offline
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So, in other words, the free market didn't work because the government failed to prosecute wrongdoing and allowed cronyism. OK.

A free market philosophy is not a pass to do whatever you want at the expense of others. It merely recognizes that it is a fallacy to direct market forces to arrive at the desired outcome. Often times those attempts result in unintended consequences that require additional interference to 'correct'. Eventually those corrections build up to the point that the law makers are, in effect, directing the economy, much to its ultimate peril. Under these conditions, who do you think those enlightened lawmakers and elites are going to keep an eye out for? The little guy? Good luck.
and a free market system is going to look out for the little man? If you don't think that a purely capitalist system isn't without its faults then you are naive.
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Old 11-28-2013, 07:05 PM   #137
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and a free market system is going to look out for the little man? If you don't think that a purely capitalist system isn't without its faults then you are naive.
Little man ? That is why immigrants come here to be the big man for a change and own their own business and thrive. And you are naive IF you think Uncle Obama is going to take care of you at every down turn of your life and be able to maintain that Snoop dog lifestyle then you are naive. Right now he is able to do so because we are printing $$ but as soon as the powers that be want their $$ back and the dollar crashes because of our debt and we move to a one world currency then LOOK OUT !! "Snoop dog won't be struttin no mo".
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Old 11-28-2013, 07:10 PM   #138
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and a free market system is going to look out for the little man? If you don't think that a purely capitalist system isn't without its faults then you are naive.
Every system has faults. The free market system just has the least. Until you solve the problem of scarcity, the free market will be the best and most efficient way for resources to be allocated.

In a free market the consumer is empowered. The consumer casts a vote every time they decide to purchase a product or service. Organizations live and die by those votes. Every consumer's dollar is worth the same as every other consumers.

Even with a democratic republic politicians are only up for vote every few years. In a free market companies and their products are up for vote every day, hour, and minute. Organizations are more responsive to consumers because they have to be.
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Old 11-28-2013, 07:51 PM   #139
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Little man ? That is why immigrants come here to be the big man for a change and own their own business and thrive. And you are naive IF you think Uncle Obama is going to take care of you at every down turn of your life and be able to maintain that Snoop dog lifestyle then you are naive. Right now he is able to do so because we are printing $$ but as soon as the powers that be want their $$ back and the dollar crashes because of our debt and we move to a one world currency then LOOK OUT !! "Snoop dog won't be struttin no mo".
What in the Jesus **** are you talking about?
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Old 11-28-2013, 07:52 PM   #140
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and a free market system is going to look out for the little man? If you don't think that a purely capitalist system isn't without its faults then you are naive.
Absolutely it looks out for the little man. It provides opportunities for competition and progress, which in turn keeps costs and goods at its absolute minimum. This raises the standard of living for the 'little man' well beyond what he could achieve in a more government involved system.

We don't have true free markets in the U.S., but it's about as close as you can come in this world. As a result, we have the richest poor people on earth by far.
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Old 11-28-2013, 07:59 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by donkhater View Post
Absolutely it looks out for the little man. It provides opportunities for competition and progress, which in turn keeps costs and goods at its absolute minimum. This raises the standard of living for the 'little man' well beyond what he could achieve in a more government involved system.

We don't have true free markets in the U.S., but it's about as close as you can come in this world. As a result, we have the richest poor people on earth by far.
I agree, we don't have free markets nor will we ever. My point is it's a delicate balance. The only question is how far either way is the point to go. My point is that there should be protection for our citizens, there should be a system of help that doesn't make one dependent and difficult to get off and we should not be giving the power of government influence to businesses as they are and will grow as we go farther to pro business.
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Old 11-28-2013, 08:21 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by J Diddy View Post
I agree, we don't have free markets nor will we ever. My point is it's a delicate balance. The only question is how far either way is the point to go. My point is that there should be protection for our citizens, there should be a system of help that doesn't make one dependent and difficult to get off and we should not be giving the power of government influence to businesses as they are and will grow as we go farther to pro business.
Do you agree that we have the richest poor people on Earth here in the US?
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Old 11-28-2013, 08:21 PM   #143
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I agree, we don't have free markets nor will we ever. My point is it's a delicate balance. The only question is how far either way is the point to go. My point is that there should be protection for our citizens, there should be a system of help that doesn't make one dependent and difficult to get off and we should not be giving the power of government influence to businesses as they are and will grow as we go farther to pro business.
Pro business does not equal free market. Big business likes big government because with regulatory capture the government becomes a tool to squash or hinder their smaller competition and prevent new competition from entering the market.

This is the fallacy that a lot of progressives fall into. They assume that the bigger the government the less power big business has. What they don't realize is that the bigger the government the more important it is that big business guides, influences, buys, and manipulates government. Big business gets a bigger bang for their buck to use the power of government to smash competition because government is powerful. Otherwise, they wouldn't bother and dedicate their resources to fending off competition product and service wise.
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Old 11-28-2013, 08:31 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by GloucesterChief View Post
Pro business does not equal free market. Big business likes big government because with regulatory capture the government becomes a tool to squash or hinder their smaller competition and prevent new competition from entering the market.

This is the fallacy that a lot of progressives fall into. They assume that the bigger the government the less power big business has. What they don't realize is that the bigger the government the more important it is that big business guides, influences, buys, and manipulates government. Big business gets a bigger bang for their buck to use the power of government to smash competition because government is powerful. Otherwise, they wouldn't bother and dedicate their resources to fending off competition product and service wise.
I would disagree and my evidence would be the business practices prior to regulation and anti-trust laws. They accomplished the same thing without governments involvement, hence, my statement that there must be a balance.
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Old 11-28-2013, 08:33 PM   #145
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Do you agree that we have the richest poor people on Earth here in the US?
Absolutely. What's your point?
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Old 11-28-2013, 08:40 PM   #146
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Do you agree that we have the richest poor people on Earth here in the US?
I always hear this, but do we? Link? What is the state of Switzerland's poor people? Norway?
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Old 11-28-2013, 08:47 PM   #147
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I would disagree and my evidence would be the business practices prior to regulation and anti-trust laws. They accomplished the same thing without governments involvement, hence, my statement that there must be a balance.
Their behavior?

Providing a good product at lessor costs then their competitors?

There is no such thing as a predatory monopoly in a free market. Heck, Alcoa was a monopoly and the price of aluminum fell during that time. Simply because selling more at a cheaper price made them more money than selling less at a higher price.

In a free market, once a monopoly becomes predatory it opens the flood gates for competition. It takes the hand of government to make a predatory monopoly stick around and stay predatory.
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Old 11-28-2013, 09:11 PM   #148
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I always hear this, but do we? Link? What is the state of Switzerland's poor people? Norway?
Link what? I asked a question.

I won't be shocked to find out that there are a handful of countries in the world where, depending on how you measure it, the poor have a slightly better standard of living than they do in the US, but I bet there aren't many and I bet that the vast majority have a significantly lower standard of living.

As for the places that arguably have poor who are as well off as our poor, it's very likely that they benefit from a piggy back effect from US prosperity.
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Old 11-28-2013, 09:11 PM   #149
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I always hear this, but do we? Link? What is the state of Switzerland's poor people? Norway?
Fair question considering whose policies we've been living under for 5 years. There is a chance Obama has given up first place.
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Old 11-28-2013, 09:14 PM   #150
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Fair question considering whose policies we've been living under for 5 years. There is a chance Obama has given up first place.
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