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Old 11-27-2013, 10:04 AM  
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Question.

I had a very interesting discussion last night based off what the Pope said in his new paper, and I want to pose a hypothetical:

If you could end poverty in America right now for every single person in our country, with the push of a button, by capping the most a person could make at $100 million, would you do it?

I haven't done the math on that, but assume for the sake of the exercise that the math would work.

Also for the purposes of this exercise, assume this is feasible to accomplish. It's a magic button. I know the popular rebuttal will be "if we did that, billionaires would go elsewhere" -- however ask yourself if would you push the button if you were guaranteed that they wouldn't?

Why, or why not?
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Old 11-27-2013, 10:48 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by tredadda View Post
Oh ok. What is your solution besides the one offered in the OP?
1. End the Drug War
2. A sensible progressive simplified tax code (we waste billions of dollars for tax compliance).
3. Increased spending on social programs
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Old 11-27-2013, 10:49 AM   #32
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baby Lee View Post
That magic button buys us, what? A month free of poverty, a week? 6 months?

What price the abolition of reward for achievement?
I guess for as long as the cap is on, poverty will be abolished.
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Old 11-27-2013, 10:49 AM   #33
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Originally Posted by Race Card native View Post
Earnings caps are a terrible idea.

I'm much more of a pragmatist when it comes to these things. Earnings caps just introduce a whole host of other problems. A sensible tax policy could accomplish the same things if we, as a country, could get past the "DON'T GIVE THOSE POOR PEOPLE MONEY. THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO WORK FOR IT OR STEAL MY SHIT TO SURVIVE."
So, you would not hit the button.
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Old 11-27-2013, 10:49 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Race Card native View Post
2. A sensible progressive simplified tax code (we waste billions of dollars for tax compliance).
I at least agree on the bolded part

the crap we have now is just ridiculous
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Old 11-27-2013, 10:49 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by loochy View Post
well if i can never be poor then i just quit work and eat cheetos all day because who cares? i can't be poor!
Do you believe that poverty must remain, in order to scare people into working?
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Old 11-27-2013, 10:51 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
You are all over the place. You have now argued:

(a.) If we elevate folks out of poverty, people will not feel the need to work and contribute to society.

and

(b.) People do not need poverty in order to feel the need to work and contribute to society.

You have argued both things with me in this very thread, have you not?
Nope. I have stated and continue to state that by elevating everyone out poverty will not fix the problem. Some people are poor due to a lack of desire to work or succeed. Not sure where part B has come from.
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Old 11-27-2013, 10:52 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
I guess for as long as the cap is on, poverty will be abolished.
Until the incentive to excel goes away. This is why communism (which is what you are pushing) is a failed policy.
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Old 11-27-2013, 10:53 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by Race Card native View Post
1. End the Drug War
2. A sensible progressive simplified tax code (we waste billions of dollars for tax compliance).
3. Increased spending on social programs
I can agree with you on #2 without a doubt. Our tax code is way too complicated and needs to be simplified.
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Old 11-27-2013, 10:56 AM   #39
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The problem I see with implementing this kind of income equality is that it focuses too much on just money. Simply giving those under the poverty line money isn't going to help much in the grand scheme of things. Mostly because their priorities are so ****ed up they don't know how to manage it in the slightest. The key would be providing opportunity instead of money. Simply taking money from the rich and giving it to the poor won't work.

I think it would be impossible to impose an income cap though. I don't see how that could ever be effectively implemented. And I don't really see taxes dramatically increasing on the rich either. Mainly because in our current government, money makes the laws. Wealthy entities have the means to influence lawmaking to a great degree. For quite some time, the majority of lawmaking, taxes, and regulations have benefited the wealthy to a much greater degree than those in poverty. Why would that change?
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Old 11-27-2013, 10:57 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tredadda View Post
Nope. I have stated and continue to state that by elevating everyone out poverty will not fix the problem. Some people are poor due to a lack of desire to work or succeed.
What does keeping them in poverty accomplish?

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Originally Posted by tredadda View Post
Not sure where part B has come from.
Uh, here?:

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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Do you believe that poverty must remain, in order to scare people into working?
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Originally Posted by tredadda View Post
Nope.
Are you telling me that's not you saying "people do not need poverty in order to feel the need to work and contribute to society"?
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Old 11-27-2013, 10:59 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
So, you would not hit the button.
I would not.
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Old 11-27-2013, 11:00 AM   #42
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish View Post
The problem I see with implementing this kind of income equality is that it focuses too much on just money. Simply giving those under the poverty line money isn't going to help much in the grand scheme of things. Mostly because their priorities are so ****ed up they don't know how to manage it in the slightest. The key would be providing opportunity instead of money. Simply taking money from the rich and giving it to the poor won't work.

I think it would be impossible to impose an income cap though. I don't see how that could ever be effectively implemented. And I don't really see taxes dramatically increasing on the rich either. Mainly because in our current government, money makes the laws. Wealthy entities have the means to influence lawmaking to a great degree. For quite some time, the majority of lawmaking, taxes, and regulations have benefited the wealthy to a much greater degree than those in poverty. Why would that change?
So, if my magic button were to effectively impose an income cap that provided housing, clothing, food and medicine to poor people, you'd go for it.
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Old 11-27-2013, 11:05 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
So, if my magic button were to effectively impose an income cap that provided housing, clothing, food and medicine to poor people, you'd go for it.
Well yeah. But I think it's currently impossible so the answer doesn't carry much weight.
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Old 11-27-2013, 11:07 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
What does keeping them in poverty accomplish?



Uh, here?:





Are you telling me that's not you saying "people do not need poverty in order to feel the need to work and contribute to society"?
1. What does elevating them out of poverty accomplish?

2. People don't need poverty to feel the need to work and contribute to society, but you are trying to twist what I am saying. Not all poor people are poor due to bad luck and circumstances. Some are that way due to their decisions and their own work ethic. Elevating them out of poverty can't and won't fix that. Again this concept you are promoting has been tried before and does not work.
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Old 11-27-2013, 11:08 AM   #45
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If we are going to have a magic button we might as well just go all the way and say that everyone can make as much money as they want but nobody will be left wanting for housing, food, etc.
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