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Old 11-27-2013, 10:04 AM  
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Question.

I had a very interesting discussion last night based off what the Pope said in his new paper, and I want to pose a hypothetical:

If you could end poverty in America right now for every single person in our country, with the push of a button, by capping the most a person could make at $100 million, would you do it?

I haven't done the math on that, but assume for the sake of the exercise that the math would work.

Also for the purposes of this exercise, assume this is feasible to accomplish. It's a magic button. I know the popular rebuttal will be "if we did that, billionaires would go elsewhere" -- however ask yourself if would you push the button if you were guaranteed that they wouldn't?

Why, or why not?
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Old 11-27-2013, 11:10 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by mr. tegu View Post
If we are going to have a magic button we might as well just go all the way and say that everyone can make as much money as they want but nobody will be left wanting for housing, food, etc.
His magic button is called Communism. Everyone is the same and no one is poor or does without. In spite of this concept failing there are still some like him who push it thinking that "this time it will be different".
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Old 11-27-2013, 11:13 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by tredadda View Post
1. What does elevating them out of poverty accomplish?
It elevates them out of poverty.
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Old 11-27-2013, 11:14 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by mr. tegu View Post
If we are going to have a magic button we might as well just go all the way and say that everyone can make as much money as they want but nobody will be left wanting for housing, food, etc.
I believe that's what the magic button here essentially does.

Do you push it?
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Old 11-27-2013, 11:14 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by Fish View Post
Well yeah. But I think it's currently impossible so the answer doesn't carry much weight.
It doesn't for you and I, no, because we're relatively pragmatic people.

For folks that live and die by ideology, however, it puts them in an interesting spot. We're seeing that with tredadda.
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Old 11-27-2013, 11:21 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
I believe that's what the magic button here essentially does.

Do you push it?
As long as as I can still be a billionaire then yes. Once you get there, there is no leaving this lifestyle.
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Old 11-27-2013, 11:21 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
It doesn't for you and I, no, because we're relatively pragmatic people.

For folks that live and die by ideology, however, it puts them in an interesting spot. We're seeing that with tredadda.
My ideaology is "Give a man a fish he eats for a day, teach a man to fish he eats for a lifetime". Your ideaology pushes giving fish and of course giving someone else's fish ad nauseum to those who do not want to learn to fish. Your solution does not teach folks to fish, just continues to take from the fisherman.

The irony is that you are quite possibly one of the biggest idealogues on this board. You live and die by one set belief. You are anything but pragmatic. Your whole solution is anti-pragmatic.
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Old 11-27-2013, 11:25 AM   #52
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If your magic button magically creates a sustainable system where the previously impoverished are now lifted out of poverty, high earners are capped at $100million and no one else is impacted (e.g. we don't have everyone in the middle sinking to the brink of poverty), then sure, I'll push it. But as so many others have suggested, this seems like fairy tale stuff so I'm not sure where that leaves us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
I fail to see how simply elevating somebody out of poverty is any kind of substantial "reward." We're talking about feeding people, clothing people, giving them medicine, and putting a roof over their head. You know: getting them out of poverty. That's something so abhorrent that we can't allow any billionaires to be reduced to $100 millionaires?

Do you believe that poverty must remain, in order to scare people into working?
If everyone was guaranteed a "living wage" that kept them above the poverty line even if they didn't work, there would be a lot of people who would choose not to work. That's only the tip of the iceberg of problems your magic button would have to magically fix.
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Old 11-27-2013, 11:31 AM   #53
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I'm pretty liberal, but I can't get behind this without caveats.
First, without the education to extend the sudden lifestyle change, many (maybe not even most, but many) would find a way to screw it up, so I'd be compelled to have compulsory money management education to "keep" the structure in place.
Secondly, every able-bodied (and minded, as we know a big portion of poverty is tied to mental illness) person must work. I assume that in your scenario, daycare will also be provided, so that takes care of that. I also assume under healthcare, you include extended help and facilities for those unable to work, in order to get them into "working shape."
At this point, and again, I say this as someone who is pretty liberal, it veers to close to communism for my taste.
I believe in a social safety net, but I just can't take that next step toward making the help a requirement.
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Old 11-27-2013, 11:32 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
It elevates them out of poverty.
You elevate yourself out of poverty with a job Moron. I suggest trying this for 1 year Direckshun. You may find that you like it,that you now feel more independent & no longer a slave to poverty.
true story, ya lazy welfare queen
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Old 11-27-2013, 11:37 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. tegu View Post
As long as as I can still be a billionaire then yes. Once you get there, there is no leaving this lifestyle.
You can't have your cake and eat it too.

In this hypothetical, we can eliminate American poverty, but the most you can rake in is $100,000,000.

Deal?
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Old 11-27-2013, 11:37 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sully View Post
I'm pretty liberal, but I can't get behind this without caveats.
First, without the education to extend the sudden lifestyle change, many (maybe not even most, but many) would find a way to screw it up, so I'd be compelled to have compulsory money management education to "keep" the structure in place.
Secondly, every able-bodied (and minded, as we know a big portion of poverty is tied to mental illness) person must work. I assume that in your scenario, daycare will also be provided, so that takes care of that. I also assume under healthcare, you include extended help and facilities for those unable to work, in order to get them into "working shape."
At this point, and again, I say this as someone who is pretty liberal, it veers to close to communism for my taste.
I believe in a social safety net, but I just can't take that next step toward making the help a requirement.
He did say it was magic. If communism magically worked, I would support it. The problem with communism is that there isn't any magic to make it work.
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Old 11-27-2013, 11:40 AM   #57
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tredadda View Post
My ideaology is "Give a man a fish he eats for a day, teach a man to fish he eats for a lifetime". Your ideaology pushes giving fish and of course giving someone else's fish ad nauseum to those who do not want to learn to fish. Your solution does not teach folks to fish, just continues to take from the fisherman.

The irony is that you are quite possibly one of the biggest idealogues on this board. You live and die by one set belief. You are anything but pragmatic. Your whole solution is anti-pragmatic.
What does keeping poverty in place accomplish? I've been asking, have yet to get an answer from you.
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Old 11-27-2013, 11:40 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
You can't have your cake and eat it too.

In this hypothetical, we can eliminate American poverty, but the most you can rake in is $100,000,000.

Deal?
This magic isn't very magical.

Anyways, if they don't get money and instead just get housing, food, etc. then yeah it seems fine.
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Old 11-27-2013, 11:41 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
If your magic button magically creates a sustainable system where the previously impoverished are now lifted out of poverty, high earners are capped at $100million and no one else is impacted (e.g. we don't have everyone in the middle sinking to the brink of poverty), then sure, I'll push it.
Interesting.
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Old 11-27-2013, 11:41 AM   #60
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. tegu View Post
This magic isn't very magical.

Anyways, if they don't get money and instead just get housing, food, etc. then yeah it seems fine.
Interesting.
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