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Old 11-27-2013, 10:04 AM  
Direckshun Direckshun is online now
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Question.

I had a very interesting discussion last night based off what the Pope said in his new paper, and I want to pose a hypothetical:

If you could end poverty in America right now for every single person in our country, with the push of a button, by capping the most a person could make at $100 million, would you do it?

I haven't done the math on that, but assume for the sake of the exercise that the math would work.

Also for the purposes of this exercise, assume this is feasible to accomplish. It's a magic button. I know the popular rebuttal will be "if we did that, billionaires would go elsewhere" -- however ask yourself if would you push the button if you were guaranteed that they wouldn't?

Why, or why not?
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Old 11-27-2013, 12:24 PM   #91
Direckshun Direckshun is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. tegu View Post
Minimum wage puts a single person above poverty, so no. But for the sake of argument, why would they work the minimum wage job in the first place? And then there are those make $15,000 per year which is hardly living the good life but it is above the poverty line.

They don't get the benefits but it sounds like they would be better off working half the time so that they don't make too much money and can then get the benefits of food, housing, etc. The combination of half the pay and the benefits received is greater than what they would make working 40 hours a week for $15,000.
Actually, minimum wage still keeps you in poverty.
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Old 11-27-2013, 12:25 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
I'm talking about reducing billionaires and some 100-millionaires to $100m, in order to completely defeat American poverty.

Stupid idea? You need to flesh out why.
Shades of LBJ.
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Old 11-27-2013, 12:32 PM   #93
mr. tegu mr. tegu is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Actually, minimum wage still keeps you in poverty.
Whatever, it is close. How about the rest of the post?

There are those that make $15,000 per year which is hardly living the good life but it is above the poverty line.

They don't get the benefits but it sounds like they would be better off working half the time so that they don't make too much money and can then get the benefits of food, housing, etc. The combination of half the pay and the benefits received is greater than what they would make working 40 hours a week for $15,000. Is this a good thing?
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Old 11-27-2013, 12:44 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
I'm proposing eliminating American poverty at zero cost to anybody except the .00001%, who would still be living far better than your wildest imaginations.

Still, no?
Why should the people that worked their butts off, and persevered have to pay for the ones that are too lazy to work, or can't find a job? The USA is a capitalist country, and your idea is communist, at best.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism
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Old 11-27-2013, 12:56 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Actually, minimum wage still keeps you in poverty.
I don't think so. $7.25 an hour is $14,000 for a 2000 hour year. Isn't the poverty threshold lower than that (this page says it's $11,490)?
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Old 11-27-2013, 01:18 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mod98Ban View Post
Why should the people that worked their butts off, and persevered have to pay for the ones that are too lazy to work, or can't find a job? The USA is a capitalist country, and your idea is communist, at best.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism
You might want to watch what you say lest Direkshun label you extremist and anti-poor.
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Old 11-27-2013, 01:27 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by tredadda View Post
You might want to watch what you say lest Direkshun label you extremist and anti-poor.
Being expressly anti-poor is what made me relatively well off. Lord knows I have no interest in being poor.
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Old 11-27-2013, 01:30 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
Being expressly anti-poor is what made me relatively well off. Lord knows I have no interest in being poor.
Unless you feel that way about everyone regardless of whether they feel the same way about themselves then that makes you my good sir an extremist.
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Old 11-27-2013, 01:46 PM   #99
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This is the silliest thread I think this place has ever seen. Government is incapable of eliminating poverty. The only thing this system would do is give a green pasture to the power hungry types on the government side, and create a powerful government ruling class who would use their power to, you guessed it, take more money and more power for themselves.

At the same time, you'd be capping growth at an arbitrary level, creating stagnation much like if you put a glass bowl over and contain a micro-ecosystem. Ever see what happens if you trap a mold in one of those?

This entire question shows the fundamental flaw of progressivism. It chases the ideal, while ignoring the road to get there. So we have a government full of people spending all these over-cap dollars of businesses on special projects - well who watches these guys? Progressives show a fundamental disinterest in how their programs operate. The answer is always throw more money at it and hope it works. In the process, they build a ton of infrastructure without bothering with sustainable ideas, and if the thing fails, it's simple, just throw more money at it.

How is this helpful? It's a waste of resources that the market would allocate much better if given the chance. Free market people don't ask about silly questions like this because they understand that life isn't just macro-economics. Life is lived at the micro-economic level, and at that level, the thing that matters the most is what sits between two ears. There is no legislative fix for that. There is no magic solution. Magic doesn't exist.

In the end, since there is no magic wand, I'd rather have someone like Bill Gates deciding how to spend "surplus" money (as if there is such a thing) than some political creature in DC.
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Old 11-27-2013, 01:52 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by Taco John View Post
This entire question shows the fundamental flaw of progressivism. It chases the ideal, while ignoring the road to get there.
I think that's worth saying a second time.
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Old 11-27-2013, 01:52 PM   #101
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Unfortunately Bill Gates has moved to the statist side of politics these days. Jobs shied away from that. Jobs leaned libertarian.
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Old 11-27-2013, 01:53 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Do you believe that poverty must remain, in order to scare people into working?
yup

why work if you don't have to?

i'd just go fishing every day.
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Old 11-27-2013, 01:53 PM   #103
Direckshun Direckshun is online now
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Shades of LBJ.
So you'd choose not to hit the button?
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Old 11-27-2013, 01:54 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by tredadda View Post
You might want to watch what you say lest Direkshun label you extremist and anti-poor.
I'm not anti-poor, but we have way too many that do nothing other than work the system for everything they can get handed to them, and they won't lift a damned finger to help themselves. Those are the types that are poison to society as a whole.

Having LoneGina, and Directshun both in here at the same time, is like being locked in a room with Karl Marx, and Vladimir Lenin.
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Old 11-27-2013, 01:57 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by Mod98Ban View Post
I'm not anti-poor, but we have way too many that do nothing other than work the system for everything they can get handed to them, and they won't lift a damned finger to help themselves. Those are the types that are poison to society as a whole.
I agree with you, but according to Direkshun that makes us "extreme", not his communistic ideaology.
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