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Old 11-29-2013, 09:58 AM  
whoman69 whoman69 is offline
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Obama

I have avoided posting here because it has become so partisan. Usually if I do post here it is to comment on a non-partisan issue like gerrymandering, the filibuster, the electoral college etc. I will break that rule now.

Many of you know from when I was posting more often here that I am a Democrat. It is with great difficulty that I call for President Obama to resign. The government has simply gotten out of control. He has lost his ability to govern. Nothing will or can be done while Obama is President except perhaps in the area of foreign policy. Good or bad he has become a lighting rod. There is an impossible standard of having to overcome a 60% limit to pass anything in the Senate. There is also the standard in the House of needing to have a majority of Republicans behind a measure before it will come to a vote. One could argue that past Speakers, including Democrats, have set the same standard. They all allowed exceptions, Boehner does not.
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Old 12-01-2013, 11:14 AM   #121
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you've information vegetable, animal, and mineral!

(for those who caught this, sorry, it's now stuck in my head too)
Might as well share the joy.

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Old 12-01-2013, 12:29 PM   #122
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I'm a joint owner in an LLC and myself and everyone I worked with received letters our health care plan is no longer valid because it doesn't meet the requirements of bum **** barry care. The damage is done no matter what barry tries to pull. We're lost as far as health care coverage goes.

But the mandate has been pushed back yet my coverage is still going to expire. And I've said this before and I mean it with my whole heart: I will be in jail before I sign up for his health care.

I was told I was allowed to keep my coverage. If we were dealing with anyone besides the government this would be fraud.
I take it your LLC provides healthcare coverage for its employees. Since your prior healthcare is no longer available, have you looked for options on the exchange? If you would rather not, you could take the average cost of what the LLC paid for its employees coverage, then provide a voucher to its employees of that amount in a healthcare account.

Keep in mind that if have less than 50 employees, you are exempt from providing healthcare for your employees.

There's no jail penalty for employers who don't provide healthcare that are required to, just a tax penalty.

I don't think "We had to change healthcare plans" is a significant gripe, though.
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Old 12-01-2013, 12:35 PM   #123
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So, it's OK to break the law when it fits your agenda? Yet I can't keep myself and employees out of losing their health care because it's the law?

That's called hypocrisy,
I didn't say it's okay to break the law, only that what you said isn't really the reality of immigration reform.
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Old 12-01-2013, 12:36 PM   #124
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Why can't people see and recognize the flexibility that Obama has demonstrated. He gets no credit at all for reaching across the aisle.
This is his primary shortcoming as a politician, his utter disdain for the political process. He doesn't think he should have to compromise with anyone. He doesn't work with Republicans to move his agenda forward the way Clinton did.

There are congressional Democrats who understand the realities of how business is done in Washington and that there is always some horse-trading going on, but Obama himself I think regards the other two branches of government as disdainfully prohibiting him from governing like a Caesar instead of a President.

Inexplicably, he seems loathe to work with anyone in Congress but employs how many lobbyists and bundlers now, officially or as surrogates?

I think he feels like the President should be a monarch. He used to walk around saying, "I won" as a reason why he should get his way, remember?

He's too small for the office.
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Old 12-01-2013, 12:44 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by Cochise View Post
I think he feels like the President should be a monarch. He used to walk around saying, "I won" as a reason why he should get his way, remember?
Yep. "Elections have consequences..." There was someone here who completely swallowed that thinking, too. "Obama won re-election, so that means he gets everything he wants and the GOP should go along with it."

Perhaps it was BigRedChief.
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Old 12-01-2013, 12:58 PM   #126
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Yep. "Elections have consequences..." There was someone here who completely swallowed that thinking, too. "Obama won re-election, so that means he gets everything he wants and the GOP should go along with it."

Perhaps it was BigRedChief.
I remember when Obama famously said, "I'm the decider - and I decide what's best."
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Old 12-01-2013, 01:01 PM   #127
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This is his primary shortcoming as a politician, his utter disdain for the political process. He doesn't think he should have to compromise with anyone. He doesn't work with Republicans to move his agenda forward the way Clinton did.
I, too, always remember (in that fashionably fuzzy stretch-truthing way to get my point across) the Clinton era as a time when Republicans and Democrats put away their party loyalties and worked together in perfect harmony. Obama obviously inherited that legacy and pissed all over it, most likely because he's a Muslim socialist from Kenya.
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Old 12-01-2013, 01:02 PM   #128
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I remember when Obama famously said, "I'm the decider - and I decide what's best."
Are you trying to draw some parallel between what Bush said above about his team and what Obama said to his opposition?
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Old 12-01-2013, 01:03 PM   #129
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Are you trying to draw some parallel between what Bush said above about his team and what Obama said to his opposition?
You are way too clever. Bush said he was the decider, regarding opposition's criticism of his Cabinet and staff. Obama said that elections have consequences, regarding opposition's criticism of what legislation his administration would pursue.

Is this a serious distinction of power-holding rhetoric? Yes, of course, if you really like Obama or you really like Bush.
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Old 12-01-2013, 01:07 PM   #130
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Yep. "Elections have consequences..." There was someone here who completely swallowed that thinking, too. "Obama won re-election, so that means he gets everything he wants and the GOP should go along with it."

Perhaps it was BigRedChief.
i'll let brc speak for himself, but i never regarded the election victory as a mandate to get "everything (they) want" but it would have been nice if the republicans in the house gave something in exchange for something from him...

it's called compromise, and the republicans haven't been inclined to do much of that, heck compromise is a dirty word in some republican circles...

the gop should compromise, get the best deal they can, and get things moving again...

obama will negotiate and has repeatedly said so and if i'm not mistaken o offered significant compromises in the negotiations with the speaker that unfortunately did not go anywhere...

after all, o likes to negotiate with our adversaries why would he not negotiate with house republicans? and why in the world wouldn't republicans not want him to negotiate? he's freaking horrible at it and the gop would have a huge advantage in those negotiations...
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Old 12-01-2013, 01:10 PM   #131
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i'll let brc speak for himself, but i never regarded the election victory as a mandate to get "everything (they) want" but it would have been nice if the republicans in the house gave something in exchange for something from him...

it's called compromise, and the republicans haven't been inclined to do much of that, heck compromise is a dirty word in some republican circles...

the gop should compromise, get the best deal they can, and get things moving again...

obama will negotiate and has repeatedly said so and if i'm not mistaken o offered significant compromises in the negotiations with the speaker that unfortunately did not go anywhere...

after all, o likes to negotiate with our adversaries why would he not negotiate with house republicans? and why in the world wouldn't republicans not want him to negotiate? he's freaking horrible at it and the gop would have a hugee advantage in that situation...
Republicans are nothing if not more than willing to compromise with President Obama's agenda. It's not like they would be willing to shut down the government over legislation that has already passed or anything.
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Old 12-01-2013, 01:12 PM   #132
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You are way too clever. Bush said he was the decider, regarding opposition's criticism of his Cabinet and staff. Obama said that elections have consequences, regarding opposition's criticism of what legislation his administration would pursue.
Right. Bush made that statement in response to people calling for Rumsfeld's head. In other words, he would decide to fire him or not.

Obama said those words to the Republicans four days after his inauguration in 2009. So, basically, he told the GOP "tough shit, I won the election and I have majorities in both houses of Congress."

Yes, now that's a good way to start off compromising with the opposition.
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Old 12-01-2013, 01:16 PM   #133
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i'll let brc speak for himself, but i never regarded the election victory as a mandate to get "everything (they) want" but it would have been nice if the republicans in the house gave something in exchange for something from him...
Good.

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it's called compromise, and the republicans haven't been inclined to do much of that, heck compromise is a dirty word in some republican circles...

the gop should compromise, get the best deal they can, and get things moving again...

obama will negotiate and has repeatedly said so and if i'm not mistaken o offered significant compromises in the negotiations with the speaker that unfortunately did not go anywhere...

after all, o likes to negotiate with our adversaries why would he not negotiate with house republicans? and why in the world wouldn't republicans not want him to negotiate? he's freaking horrible at it and the gop would have a huge advantage in those negotiations...
See above. Obama CHOSE to view the GOP as his enemy and basically told them to **** off just a few days after being in office. He then has repeatedly chosen to scuttle deals (namely the debt deal) at the last moment. Add all that up on top of Obama pushing a socialist agenda, and sure, I can easily see why Republicans now want nothing to do with compromising with Obama.
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Old 12-01-2013, 01:21 PM   #134
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Right. Bush made that statement in response to people calling for Rumsfeld's head. In other words, he would decide to fire him or not.

Obama said those words to the Republicans four days after his inauguration in 2009. So, basically, he told the GOP "tough shit, I won the election and I have majorities in both houses of Congress."

Yes, now that's a good way to start off compromising with the opposition.
And in both cases, Bush was the decider, and Obama's election did have consequences. Or would Republicans have warmed up to Obama if he had said, "I know I won, but **** that. How can I help your agenda? Help me, help you."

I expect Bush to be the decider of who is on his staff. I expect Obama to advance his agenda after a major electoral victory. In fact, so did John McCain, who told Ted Cruz that elections have consequences.

And you leave out some major points of that meeting with Republicans. Let's have someone who was there share them:

--- If Mr. Obama’s separate sessions with House and Senate Republicans on Tuesday did not win him any immediate additional support, they got high marks from Republicans for outreach.

Republican lawmakers said his efforts were a good start toward building a relationship with them that would be vital as Congress and the administration turned to politically divisive issues like health care, tax reform and the long-term financial problems facing Medicare and Social Security.

“This was not a drive-by P.R. stunt, and I actually thought it might be,” said Representative Zach Wamp, Republican of Tennessee. “It was a substantive, in-depth discussion with our conference, and he’s very effective.”

“He knows that the debt and the deficit are huge long-term problems as well,” Mr. Wamp said, “and he made a compelling case. He sounded, frankly, a lot like a Republican.” ---

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/28/us...s/28obama.html

But if you want to be a Republican party stooge, hey, it's a free country. Just don't expect your opinion to get much bipartisan traction.
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Old 12-01-2013, 01:23 PM   #135
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See above. Obama CHOSE to view the GOP as his enemy and basically told them to **** off just a few days after being in office. He then has repeatedly chosen to scuttle deals (namely the debt deal) at the last moment. Add all that up on top of Obama pushing a socialist agenda, and sure, I can easily see why Republicans now want nothing to do with compromising with Obama.
No, he didn't. He passed a stimulus plan and then was derided as a socialist by a very vocal minority. The very vocal minority, still in existence, hated everything Barack Obama supposedly stood for, so they yelled at Congressional members at town-hall meetings and staged demonstrations. Then they elected people like Ted Cruz and Mike Lee to be completely uncompromising with a Democratic agenda.
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