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Old 12-11-2013, 12:31 AM  
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Do you think we have a crisis with income equality and/or economic mobility?

Both are currently at all time lows.

Do you believe we have a severe problem on this front, and what specifically do you believe is the solution to rectifying it?

I look forward to an illuminating thread.
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Old 12-11-2013, 07:46 AM   #16
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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So, if I may summarize the point of view of conservatives in this thread:

Income inequality and economic mobility being at all time lows is not a major crisis for our concern.

I'd like any conservative in this thread to correct me if I'm wrong. So far that's the vibe I'm getting.
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Old 12-11-2013, 07:53 AM   #17
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Old 12-11-2013, 07:54 AM   #18
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That is certainly the narrative. But do the data support it? When house hold is more closely defined in terms of wage earners in the household the results change. We have an increasing number of singles, more single earner households as a result thus less income per household. And to say its all too high for the majority of Americans is a stretch. Has car ownership dropped? Are new and used car sales down? Yes its $$. But people seem to keep buying.

Id agree the majority of people wish stuff was cheaper. But it does not look like being higher has shifted behavior at all
Debt to income ratio has gotten out of hand. 76% of Americans in 2013 live paycheck to paycheck. Most do not invest in their retirement other than the bare minimum. Most do not save.

When I say it's too high, it's not a stretch. Too high to afford? No, but too high to afford and live responsibly? Yes. A person should be able to take home a wage, provide for his family, save 10%, donate 10%, pay taxes and bills, and still have enough left over to "invest in the ecomomy".

Right now the majority of Americans have a huge mortgage payment, 2 car payments and 7k in debt. They have zero or little savings so if something happens they are assed out. Money issues cause marital issues and increase all kinds of other issues.

This is why I cannot stand obamacare because you are taking a SIGNIFICANT chunk of cash out of a persons finances. That ultimately creates a burden on the economy because people will spend less. And that's the best case scenerio. What happens to people that barely get by? They won't be getting by or won't be getting insurance.
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Old 12-11-2013, 08:00 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
So, if I may summarize the point of view of conservatives in this thread:

Income inequality and economic mobility being at all time lows is not a major crisis for our concern.

I'd like any conservative in this thread to correct me if I'm wrong. So far that's the vibe I'm getting.
Is it Bush's fault this has gotten worse under Obama? Asking for a friend.
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Old 12-11-2013, 08:02 AM   #20
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Originally Posted by Bewbies View Post
Is it Bush's fault this has gotten worse under Obama? Asking for a friend.
I'm not assigning blame. I'm just asking if you think we face a crisis on these issues, and if so, how you would attempt to resolve them.

I'm assuming you agree we have a crisis on our hands.
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Old 12-11-2013, 08:03 AM   #21
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Perhaps the data does not support the assertion. You want it to be a crisis. You need it to be a crisis. Maybe the vibe is that you are akin to chicken little. And the sky is not really falling.

In any situation there will be income differences. You choose the term inequality because its a powerful word that evokes some response that there is some evil there. We should all be equal right? That is your objective.

Should an intern make as much as a new hire? Or a new hire make as much as a peer in same job who has been in job 3 years? Do managers make more than non managers? Income inequality run amuck. Should households with two wage earners be treated same as hh's with one?

Over the recent past women moved into the workplace and traditional man work woman stay home roles changed. Is there an evil inequality between those two since clearly a home with two wage earners will make a lot more than one with one?

Not sure you can sell this beyond a few folks. Its worth a try.
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Old 12-11-2013, 08:07 AM   #22
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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So far, only Bewbies has agreed that historically high income inequality and/or economic immobility is a crisis among the conservatives in this thread.
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Old 12-11-2013, 08:13 AM   #23
HonestChieffan HonestChieffan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaa1025 View Post
Debt to income ratio has gotten out of hand. 76% of Americans in 2013 live paycheck to paycheck. Most do not invest in their retirement other than the bare minimum. Most do not save.

When I say it's too high, it's not a stretch. Too high to afford? No, but too high to afford and live responsibly? Yes. A person should be able to take home a wage, provide for his family, save 10%, donate 10%, pay taxes and bills, and still have enough left over to "invest in the ecomomy".

Right now the majority of Americans have a huge mortgage payment, 2 car payments and 7k in debt. They have zero or little savings so if something happens they are assed out. Money issues cause marital issues and increase all kinds of other issues.

This is why I cannot stand obamacare because you are taking a SIGNIFICANT chunk of cash out of a persons finances. That ultimately creates a burden on the economy because people will spend less. And that's the best case scenerio. What happens to people that barely get by? They won't be getting by or won't be getting insurance.

I wont disagree that people are spending more and saving less. But I also hold that spending is a decision people make voluntarily. We have all become so used to buying our cable/sat TV we forget free TV is out there. We have to have cell phones...really? People who once had one car have two. And where once people saved to get something, today we borrow to get something.

Im not disagreeing with you. But some of this is self inflicted. And you are spot on that ObamaCare cost is going to hit hard on those who are already spending a high% of take home pay. Government tellin people they have to give up cable tv so they can pay for mandated insurance wont sell in Peoria
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Old 12-11-2013, 08:16 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by jaa1025 View Post
We have a problem with pricing people out of living a decent life.

Everything from owning a house, buying a car, gas and groceries is way too expensive for the majority of americans. The cost of living and wage increases hasn't risen at the same rate as inflation.
There ya go. Not to mention job insecurity, outsourcing, illegal immigration and generally increased cost of doing business.

See, people want companies to pay more taxes but also pay their employees more but also sell their products cheap.
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Old 12-11-2013, 08:19 AM   #25
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Basically, Direckshun has 20 articles copied and he's ready to paste them. But he does this weird thing where he wants people to go, "Gee. I agree. It is a problem," before he pastes all of it.
Somehow he has this notion that going, "Ok, so we agree that it's an issue. If we agree that it's an issue then why would you oppose ____.?" Then he posts all the articles he originally intended to post.
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Old 12-11-2013, 08:20 AM   #26
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Interesting that under Obama's watch the ability to better your position in society has become much harder. Thought he was about spreading the wealth around? Maybe he's just about spreading the wealth to the Party, just like the rest of the A-Holes. Typically Democrats do not give as much to charity as their GOP counterparts. It's always about someone else's money.
The decline in upward mobility began long before Obama was elected dumb ****.
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Old 12-11-2013, 08:21 AM   #27
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Basically, Direckshun has 20 articles copied and he's ready to paste them. But he does this weird thing where he wants people to go, "Gee. I agree. It is a problem," before he pastes all of it.
Somehow he has this notion that going, "Ok, so we agree that it's an issue. If we agree that it's an issue then why would you oppose ____.?" Then he posts all the articles he originally intended to post.
Admitting you have a problem is the first step to recovery.
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Old 12-11-2013, 08:26 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Both are currently at all time lows.

Do you believe we have a severe problem on this front, and what specifically do you believe is the solution to rectifying it?

I look forward to an illuminating thread.
If you're concerned about this, stated this way, then you've got to be a socialist. Perhaps even a communist. This is class warfare.

If you were a liberal, as you claim, then liberals are BIG on claiming to find the the cause. You don't do this. Your question in this post asks how to address the symptoms. You and others of your ideology act as if it's just a problem created by class, when it's a problem CAUSED by govt intervention in the economy most of the things your side has recommended. This includes the central planning viewpoint inherent in your question that the collective ("we') must handle it.
This includes the FACT that you don't see ACA as an aspect of that central planning.

There is, however, one that both sides ignore--The Federal Reserve and the Hamiltonian influences that exist in the GOP. Socialism, whether patchwork or the fascist (Progressive) versions is NOT the solution.

Per polls people are fed up with both parties and THAT tells me something. They are sick and tired of the crap results your side has provided. ( with it's share of cronyist reaping benefits) And they are not happy with aspects of the GOP. (Iran and the calls for more aggression.) I think it's time for a completely different approach then the two clashing sides of dialectic materialism.
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Old 12-11-2013, 08:27 AM   #29
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Basically, Direckshun has 20 articles copied and he's ready to paste them. But he does this weird thing where he wants people to go, "Gee. I agree. It is a problem," before he pastes all of it.
Somehow he has this notion that going, "Ok, so we agree that it's an issue. If we agree that it's an issue then why would you oppose ____.?" Then he posts all the articles he originally intended to post.
Spot on~
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Old 12-11-2013, 08:34 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
So, if I may summarize the point of view of conservatives in this thread:

Income inequality and economic mobility being at all time lows is not a major crisis for our concern.

I'd like any conservative in this thread to correct me if I'm wrong. So far that's the vibe I'm getting.
It shouldn't be communicated as "income equality." One because wages are not the only indicator of increased standard of living. The other is the increased cost of living.

No doubt people, all around, are struggling. That is going on. But your socialist inspired way of framing the debate leads to the answer you want.

Doesn't it?

More govt intervention, when it's that intervention that is causing the problem.

Less govt and more economic freedom is the answer.
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