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Old 12-11-2013, 12:31 AM  
Direckshun Direckshun is online now
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Do you think we have a crisis with income equality and/or economic mobility?

Both are currently at all time lows.

Do you believe we have a severe problem on this front, and what specifically do you believe is the solution to rectifying it?

I look forward to an illuminating thread.
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Old 12-11-2013, 09:37 AM   #46
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And if you weren't ignorant and/or paying attention, you'd realize I don't use them every post.
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Old 12-11-2013, 09:52 AM   #47
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Guess what, your Parents and or Grandparents the “ GREATEST GENERATION” had the game rigged in their favor.

I have an opinion that often pisses people off because, it contradicts the notion of “American exceptionalism”. I deal with people all over the country every day and “exceptional” is not a word I would use to describe my fellow Americans nearly as often as I would dishonest and lazy. People came to North America because the natural resources of Europe were strained. With North America having a couple thousand years of their resources untapped compared to Europe, wealth was literally here for the taking. If you were willing to cut trees down, farm the land and hunt the game it was available.

Additionally we were protected by thousands of miles of two great oceans which considerably lowered what we needed to spend on defense for a couple hundred years. Logistically it was just too much trouble to invade us. In WWI and WWII the other industrial powers were decimated in both terms of Manpower lost and infrastructure destroyed. We came through both of wars very unscathed.

So Post WWII we still had abundant natural resources, and really not much competition in manufacturing. We were actually the Largest oil exporter in the world for decades. We could overpay everyone because other countries had no choice but to buy our goods. This is what temporarily produced a middle class in the United States. Times have changed. The World has changed and we no longer have the same unfair advantages. So who is poor? There are certainly those that have little or nothing but, people that have decent housing, two cars, several TVs, cell phones with Data Plans, Free education and medical care and enough food to be overweight can still be considered poor these days. It does make it a little more understandable why we are not always popular in other countries. If one wants to change their station in life they may just need to actually be a little exceptional to do it. Asking the guy who has more toys to give you some just ain't goinna do it.
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Old 12-11-2013, 09:54 AM   #48
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This is rather interesting. AP reports today that Americans are feeling better about their finances. If true, then mounting a campaign to sell people on why they should fell bad is really a bad idea.

Add to that the people selling the package are those who are least trusted...politicians. Couple that with the damage done every day by the constant bad news on ObamaCare and it is ugly

When you have Sebelius saying millions of people with canceled insurance are "thrilled " with Obamacare....really? Building credibility on this?

Perfect storm of bad performance, message that wont sell, and an electorate not motivated to go to the polls .... Debby Wasserman Shultz better have some neat tricks to turn this around
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Old 12-11-2013, 10:04 AM   #49
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The world disagrees with you (check what the 10 year Treasuries are trading at before you respond).
Yes, I know. For me, the concern revolves around when our debt reaches the tipping point as it relates to GDP.

And the fact that we piss away $500 billion a year...
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Old 12-11-2013, 10:11 AM   #50
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The push on the left will be to spin this as hard as they can and will use all the old techniques...attack the institutions, demonize one class over another and produce huge numbers of charts and graphs and bullshit to sell an emotional story white hiding from the truth

This is a concluding paragraph from an excellent essay regarding this notion that the middle class is in dire situations and the evil rich are killing them....

In short, while the middle class—and especially the poor—saw declines in market income after 2007, the safety net appears to have performed just as we would hope, mitigating the losses experienced by households. By 2011, the safety net had returned middle-class and poor households’ incomes to the highest levels ever seen. Since then, the situation has likely improved. Disposable income among the poor and middle class is probably at an all-time high.
Of course, neither the left nor the right is likely to be happy about this conclusion. The left worries that if things are getting better, public support for helping the poor will wane and their “middle-out” agenda will look misguided. The right does not want to concede that the safety net may have achieved income security. In response, the left might reply that things would be even better today if we had had more stimulus, while the right might say that safety net programs’ work disincentives prevented greater improvement. It is undoubtedly the case that policy could have produced at least a somewhat better result, though if we are honest, we have no idea how or by how much.


If you have interest the full meal deal is here. ...http://www.economics21.org/commentar...nd-poor-part-1
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Old 12-11-2013, 10:14 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FishingRod View Post
Guess what, your Parents and or Grandparents the “ GREATEST GENERATION” had the game rigged in their favor.

I have an opinion that often pisses people off because, it contradicts the notion of “American exceptionalism”. I deal with people all over the country every day and “exceptional” is not a word I would use to describe my fellow Americans nearly as often as I would dishonest and lazy. People came to North America because the natural resources of Europe were strained. With North America having a couple thousand years of their resources untapped compared to Europe, wealth was literally here for the taking. If you were willing to cut trees down, farm the land and hunt the game it was available.

Additionally we were protected by thousands of miles of two great oceans which considerably lowered what we needed to spend on defense for a couple hundred years. Logistically it was just too much trouble to invade us. In WWI and WWII the other industrial powers were decimated in both terms of Manpower lost and infrastructure destroyed. We came through both of wars very unscathed.

So Post WWII we still had abundant natural resources, and really not much competition in manufacturing. We were actually the Largest oil exporter in the world for decades. We could overpay everyone because other countries had no choice but to buy our goods. This is what temporarily produced a middle class in the United States. Times have changed. The World has changed and we no longer have the same unfair advantages. So who is poor? There are certainly those that have little or nothing but, people that have decent housing, two cars, several TVs, cell phones with Data Plans, Free education and medical care and enough food to be overweight can still be considered poor these days. It does make it a little more understandable why we are not always popular in other countries. If one wants to change their station in life they may just need to actually be a little exceptional to do it. Asking the guy who has more toys to give you some just ain't goinna do it.
There's a tremendous amount of truth to this, though I note that American industriousness and ingenuity helped them tap the natural wealth that the new country had to offer in a way that allowed them to maximize its potential.

Additional intelligent/aggressive decisions that led to a vastly stronger, wealthier United States including purchasing Alaska and conquering/taking the Southwestern US from Mexico.
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Old 12-11-2013, 10:14 AM   #52
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...

Perfect storm of bad performance, message that wont sell, and an electorate not motivated to go to the polls .... Debby Wasserman Shultz better have some neat tricks to turn this around
Good thing for the Dems, then, that they have an incompetent, radical, and arrogant GOP to run against. It still makes them the least bad of two bad choices, especially given the demographic trends which appear to be pushing the GOP even further toward the lunatic fringe--which is saying something.
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Old 12-11-2013, 10:19 AM   #53
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Even the terminology "income inequality" is nonsense. What's the solution? "Income equality"? But no, we aren't socialists or anything.
yup...it only exists when members of the same occupation get paid differently.....women managers vs. men managers as an example. (mostly in the past but I would guess it still happens)

There is no inequality when you compare the mcdonalds guy to any other occupation other than fast food fry cook.
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Old 12-11-2013, 10:23 AM   #54
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People are waking up to peace and prosperity through: true free-market economics, liberty, govt non-interventionism abroad and at home even if it happens slowly. The young are interested, businesses are interested and there are more free-market (Austrian) economic professors than ever in the universities teaching. It WILL happen as the ideas from the status-quo continue to meltdown our economy. It's also a world-wide movement. It is anti-Marxian, anti-Keynesian.

Few believe the economic statistics on inflation and employment from the Establishment. Such as inflation being around 2% and unemployment at 7%. They are LIES. So are their charts. Not everyone out there is easily duped or stupid because they can observe.

When FDR first ran for president even he ran on less spending and sound money but it was the academics from universities that entered his govt and converted everyone. If they can influence by gaining key positions, then we can too. And we are.

Last third of video covers what's happening and not being reported.

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Old 12-11-2013, 10:25 AM   #55
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Good thing for the Dems, then, that they have an incompetent, radical, and arrogant GOP to run against. It still makes them the least bad of two bad choices, especially given the demographic trends which appear to be pushing the GOP increasingly from lunatic fringe toward extinction.
That could be restated as the exact issue the democrats face. And both are correct. Neither party has shown any ability to deliver. The hope you have ghat your evil dark lords will be swept away by demographic trends is a fun thing to say and may make you feel better but its not likely to happen. The lunatic fringe is no better on the left fringe than the right. The radical republican is no more radical than the radicle democrat. And incompetence as we have seen over and over from this administration didn't leave town with GWB. Arrogance in the form of Obama, Sebelius, Reid, Pelosi cant make thinking democrats very happy

What you fail to appreciate is the great number of voters who migrate left and right and unlike you are not at all rooting for the demise of the other. There are a lot of moderate/right dems who like moderate left repubs who determine elections
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Old 12-11-2013, 10:27 AM   #56
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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So Post WWII we still had abundant natural resources, and really not much competition in manufacturing.
Just one point, I'd like to address. Natural resources are not really as important as they are made out to be. Liberty is the bigger factor. Russia was abundant in such resources but didn't really use them as well as America. Same for South America. Hong Kong has little in natural resources yet they prosper.

People are the largest natural resource. Suppress them and economies will falter.
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Old 12-11-2013, 10:29 AM   #57
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Both are currently at all time lows.

Do you believe we have a severe problem on this front, and what specifically do you believe is the solution to rectifying it?

I look forward to an illuminating thread.

Of course we do. It's one of the side effect of Keynesianism. And with QE, we're only making it worse. Not to mention the bailouts and etc. Leftists think there is a magic wand (or law) that can be waved (passed) to fix it, but what needed to happen was the liquidation of all the bad money in the economy and a new economy rising to take its place.

Leftists didn't want to take that medicine, though, and now they complain about the sickness that they've brought on and want to blame it on everyone but themselves and the broken system they rescued.
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Old 12-11-2013, 10:40 AM   #58
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Of course we do. It's one of the side effect of Keynesianism. And with QE, we're only making it worse. Not to mention the bailouts and etc. Leftists think there is a magic wand (or law) that can be waved (passed) to fix it, but what needed to happen was the liquidation of all the bad money in the economy and a new economy rising to take its place.

Leftists didn't want to take that medicine, though, and now they complain about the sickness that they've brought on and want to blame it on everyone but themselves and the broken system they rescued.
Treat the symptoms and ignore the cure. Cannot blame the government. We voted these shitbags into power while letting them create the comforts of a ruling class for themselves. The symptoms are the necessary talking points and you can bet your ass there ain't no cure on the mind of anyone on the ballots~
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Old 12-11-2013, 10:42 AM   #59
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Treat the symptoms and ignore the cure. Cannot blame the government. We voted these shitbags into power while letting them create the comforts of a ruling class for themselves. The symptoms are the necessary talking points and you can bet your ass there ain't no cure on the mind of anyone on the ballots~
Which is why the people have to be changed first. That takes educating them in sound ideas so they reject who they're offered. Ultimately, we get the govt we deserve. Our reps and govt are merely a reflection of the electorate.
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Old 12-11-2013, 10:44 AM   #60
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Which is why the people have to be changed first. That takes educating them in sound ideas so they reject who they're offered. Ultimately, we get the govt we deserve. Our reps and govt are merely a reflection of the electorate.
Oh, now this is rich coming from a person who claims that we don't have a form of democracy....
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