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Old 12-11-2013, 12:31 AM  
Direckshun Direckshun is online now
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Do you think we have a crisis with income equality and/or economic mobility?

Both are currently at all time lows.

Do you believe we have a severe problem on this front, and what specifically do you believe is the solution to rectifying it?

I look forward to an illuminating thread.
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Old 12-11-2013, 09:52 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
I don't like the equality argument.
I don't believe in income equality. I know that sharing equally is not in our nature. It is a filed system. We have to have winners and losers. To share equally goes against everything ingrained in us genetically. We are all descendants of the winners of the battles.

It just needs to be tempered from time to time.

During the baron era of rockfeller and Carnegie the USA benefited from their ruthlessness and no regulation. But the workers got paid shit. No large middle class developed.

After WWII, we built the largest middle class in the history of the world. The workers received better wages than they had in the past.

Currently the growth in income is at the top of the curve. You know as well as I do without a strong middle class this Republic is done. We will cruise along, the rich/poor gap will widen and how we become the greatest economy ever known will just fade away until something breaks and it all falls down around us.
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WHAT DID I SAY, HUH?!?!?! TELL ME AGAIN?!?! - WHO HAD FAITH IN YOUR TEAM?!?!? WHAT'S MY MOTHER****IN NAME!?!?!
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Old 12-11-2013, 09:55 PM   #92
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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I know what you mean but no one really points to the right causes. And that is the loose monetary policies at the Federal Reserve.
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Old 12-11-2013, 09:56 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
I don't believe in income equality. I know that sharing equally is not in our nature. It is a filed system. We have to have winners and losers. To share equally goes against everything ingrained in us genetically. We are all descendants of the winners of the battles.

It just needs to be tempered from time to time.

During the baron era of rockfeller and Carnegie the USA benefited from their ruthlessness and no regulation. But the workers got paid shit. No large middle class developed.

After WWII, we built the largest middle class in the history of the world. The workers received better wages than they had in the past.

Currently the growth in income is at the top of the curve. You know as well as I do without a strong middle class this Republic is done. We will cruise along, the rich/poor gap will widen and how we become the greatest economy ever known will just fade away until something breaks and it all falls down around us.
And you will blame it on the people who have it but don't deserve it (in your opinion) and I'll blame it on the people who don't have it and don't deserve it (in my opinion).
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Old 12-11-2013, 09:59 PM   #94
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Who do you fear is going to come knocking?
fear? Nope. It's coming unless we change. I've got a chance to live my life. My son is pretty damn smart. No matter what happens, smart people always land on their feet.

Any student of history knows what what happens when the people feel that the rich and powerful are taking more and more and the people are getting less and less.
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WHAT DID I SAY, HUH?!?!?! TELL ME AGAIN?!?! - WHO HAD FAITH IN YOUR TEAM?!?!? WHAT'S MY MOTHER****IN NAME!?!?!
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Old 12-11-2013, 10:01 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
I know what you mean but no one really points to the right causes. And that is the loose monetary policies at the Federal Reserve.
Come on BEP, the Fed is not some stand alone boogeyman. The rich and powerful like the Fed's policies. Is that just a coincidence?
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WHAT DID I SAY, HUH?!?!?! TELL ME AGAIN?!?! - WHO HAD FAITH IN YOUR TEAM?!?!? WHAT'S MY MOTHER****IN NAME!?!?!
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Old 12-11-2013, 10:04 PM   #96
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And you will blame it on the people who have it but don't deserve it (in your opinion) and I'll blame it on the people who don't have it and don't deserve it (in my opinion).
Your not paying too close of attention to my views.

JFC,

I've been a long time supporter of limits on government assistance. Hand up, not hand outs. Either you make a effort to get off the government dole or we will boot you off. No free rides for anyone except for the elderly, disabled and kids.
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WHAT DID I SAY, HUH?!?!?! TELL ME AGAIN?!?! - WHO HAD FAITH IN YOUR TEAM?!?!? WHAT'S MY MOTHER****IN NAME!?!?!
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Old 12-11-2013, 10:06 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
fear? Nope. It's coming unless we change. I've got a chance to live my life. My son is pretty damn smart. No matter what happens, smart people always land on their feet.

Any student of history knows what what happens when the people feel that the rich and powerful are taking more and more and the people are getting less and less.
Absolutely. If the wealthy won't let us rob them, we'll kill them.
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Old 12-11-2013, 10:07 PM   #98
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Come on BEP, the Fed is not some stand alone boogeyman. The rich and powerful like the Fed's policies. Is that just a coincidence?
Well, that's what I posted earlier that the rich and powerful like its policies but it has a lot to do with making things harder on everyone else. It's one of the root causes. Sure there are other causes but that makes a lot of the other causes possible and acts as an enabler of them.
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Old 12-11-2013, 10:16 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
Your not paying too close of attention to my views.

JFC,

I've been a long time supporter of limits on government assistance. Hand up, not hand outs. Either you make a effort to get off the government dole or we will boot you off. No free rides for anyone except for the elderly, disabled and kids.
So what's your plan to solve this "problem" and keep the masses from going apeshit? Voluntary wealth reductions? Government confiscation? Maybe God could smite rich people who don't donate enough to NPR?
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Old 12-11-2013, 10:21 PM   #100
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So what's your plan to solve this "problem" and keep the masses from going apeshit? Voluntary wealth reductions? Government confiscation? Maybe God could smite rich people who don't donate enough to NPR?
You can start with removing the Bush tax cuts completly. Return the tax code to what it was under Clinton.

Stop corporate welfare. $3 billion a year to help big oil? $2 billion to big corporate farms instead of the family farmer. Etc.

Put in place programs that help people help themselves. Motivate them to take risks and believe in themselfs. Embrace science and education, not excessive greed.
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WHAT DID I SAY, HUH?!?!?! TELL ME AGAIN?!?! - WHO HAD FAITH IN YOUR TEAM?!?!? WHAT'S MY MOTHER****IN NAME!?!?!
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Old 12-11-2013, 10:24 PM   #101
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BTW, checking out of this thread for the night. Have to go watch a Duck Dynasty marathon.
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WHAT DID I SAY, HUH?!?!?! TELL ME AGAIN?!?! - WHO HAD FAITH IN YOUR TEAM?!?!? WHAT'S MY MOTHER****IN NAME!?!?!
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Old 12-11-2013, 10:27 PM   #102
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You can start with removing the Bush tax cuts completly. Return the tax code to what it was under Clinton.

Stop corporate welfare. $3 billion a year to help big oil? $2 billion to big corporate farms instead of the family farmer. Etc.

Put in place programs that help people help themselves. Motivate them to take risks and believe in themselfs. Embrace science and education, not excessive greed.
I'll stand with you if you want to eliminate corporate welfare, but I don't support an income tax at all, so I can't help you with your first crusade. I'm afraid that we have millions of citizens that aren't interested in helping themselves no matter what platitudes or programs you might conjure. I have no idea what your last sentence means, if it means anything at all.
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Old 12-11-2013, 10:37 PM   #103
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During the baron era of rockfeller and Carnegie the USA benefited from their ruthlessness and no regulation. But the workers got paid shit. No large middle class developed.
False. The middle class grew rapidly during the industrial revolution. Companies needed managers, accountants, lawyers, engineers, clerks, draftsmen, salesmen, and other white collar labor. Previous to the industrial revolution the middle class was very small and consisted pretty much of skilled craftsmen, whose entry was restricted by guilds, and merchants. The only rich folk were part of the nobility or the church.

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After WWII, we built the largest middle class in the history of the world. The workers received better wages than they had in the past.
And as it turned out were payed more then their actual worth once competition from other countries started coming into the American market. Also, if you were black or in the South generally you were most likely poor.

Quote:
Currently the growth in income is at the top of the curve. You know as well as I do without a strong middle class this Republic is done. We will cruise along, the rich/poor gap will widen and how we become the greatest economy ever known will just fade away until something breaks and it all falls down around us.
And how do you propose to do that? The more government intervenes the more the income gap widens. More government regulation or taxes is not the solution.
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Old 12-11-2013, 11:10 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
I don't believe in income equality. I know that sharing equally is not in our nature. It is a filed system. We have to have winners and losers. To share equally goes against everything ingrained in us genetically. We are all descendants of the winners of the battles.

It just needs to be tempered from time to time.

During the baron era of rockfeller and Carnegie the USA benefited from their ruthlessness and no regulation. But the workers got paid shit. No large middle class developed.

After WWII, we built the largest middle class in the history of the world. The workers received better wages than they had in the past.

Currently the growth in income is at the top of the curve. You know as well as I do without a strong middle class this Republic is done. We will cruise along, the rich/poor gap will widen and how we become the greatest economy ever known will just fade away until something breaks and it all falls down around us.
The problem with your post is it is untrue. Its a repeated lie. It won't become true because you and the rest of the class warriors say it. Do your homework. Don't just parrot bullshit.
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Old 12-11-2013, 11:15 PM   #105
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Good read that pretty well resets the entire argument. It won't set well with those who desperately need this to be a crisis. But since it is not a crisis, the very people they hope to enrage will ignore it.

http://www.economics21.org/commentar...blem-overblown
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