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Old 12-11-2013, 12:31 AM  
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Do you think we have a crisis with income equality and/or economic mobility?

Both are currently at all time lows.

Do you believe we have a severe problem on this front, and what specifically do you believe is the solution to rectifying it?

I look forward to an illuminating thread.
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Old 12-12-2013, 12:02 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
So far, only Bewbies has agreed that historically high income inequality and/or economic immobility is a crisis among the conservatives in this thread.
I don't agree. If you want more, work harder. We have a huge income gap because too many people want hand outs, or want a job but don't want to work.

And there's lots do people completely winning at life that don't make shit, but they are happy as hell and living out their dreams. Only an idiot thinks income is the determining factor do someone's personal success. Or that it's someone else's fault you aren't living out your own dreams.
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Old 12-12-2013, 12:40 AM   #107
jaa1025 jaa1025 is offline
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Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
I wont disagree that people are spending more and saving less. But I also hold that spending is a decision people make voluntarily. We have all become so used to buying our cable/sat TV we forget free TV is out there. We have to have cell phones...really? People who once had one car have two. And where once people saved to get something, today we borrow to get something.

Im not disagreeing with you. But some of this is self inflicted. And you are spot on that ObamaCare cost is going to hit hard on those who are already spending a high% of take home pay. Government tellin people they have to give up cable tv so they can pay for mandated insurance wont sell in Peoria

I agree that it's self inflicted. But to be honest, I don't blame people. They are a product of the way this nation pushes people. I was not taught at a young age the value of saving. We didn't have money growing up and it was pay check to pay check. There was no classes to teach me the value of saving throughout my early education. In college, I never learned. In fact, my campus was littered with Credit Card booths offering free Tshirts etc for signing up. Our government teaches us that it's ok to borrow. TV adds brainwash us to think that we need items that we don't.

I will be debt free for the first time at 34 years old (in about 4-5 months) outside of my mortgage. It's amazing how much debt affects your life, your family, your emotional health, your physical health. I will never again be a slave to it.
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Old 12-12-2013, 06:50 AM   #108
Loneiguana Loneiguana is offline
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
I know what you mean but no one really points to the right causes. And that is the loose monetary policies at the Federal Reserve.
You continue to show you have no idea about the economy.

You do realize that buying power isn't dictated by the value of the currency, but of the value of the labor that generated it, right?

"The Dollar" might buy more (it wouldn't by the way, read chapters like... what... 10 - 15? of Wealth of Nations for that argument), but people couldn't. See, that dollar would by more goods, but it would necessarily also buy more labor. If you're not following, that means people would all necessarily get paid less as their labor didn't inherently become worth more money, and the money ... did.

Printing money, destroying money, they have next to no impact on the health or activity of an economy. Seriously. I'm tired of hearing this. You learned this in middle school history class when you talked about post WWI Germany. You unlearn this in econ 101 unless your professor is a biased piece of garbage.

Oh wait, you never went to College and base your economic views on trash websites that cater to your already held beliefs.

/you are stupid
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Old 12-12-2013, 06:53 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
Not like this. We will always have economic inequality but if it continues on this curve there will be trouble.
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Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
What curve?
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Old 12-12-2013, 06:56 AM   #110
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I'll stand with you if you want to eliminate corporate welfare, but I don't support an income tax at all, so I can't help you with your first crusade. I'm afraid that we have millions of citizens that aren't interested in helping themselves no matter what platitudes or programs you might conjure. I have no idea what your last sentence means, if it means anything at all.
This whole notion that we have millions of Citizens who don't want to work is completely and utterly not true.

I am sick of seeing it.
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Old 12-12-2013, 07:02 AM   #111
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Bummer. Here's the thing: You and I will discuss nothing. There are folks here that I respect and those I don't.
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Old 12-12-2013, 07:04 AM   #112
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Originally Posted by jaa1025 View Post
I agree that it's self inflicted. But to be honest, I don't blame people. They are a product of the way this nation pushes people. I was not taught at a young age the value of saving. We didn't have money growing up and it was pay check to pay check. There was no classes to teach me the value of saving throughout my early education. In college, I never learned. In fact, my campus was littered with Credit Card booths offering free Tshirts etc for signing up. Our government teaches us that it's ok to borrow. TV adds brainwash us to think that we need items that we don't.

I will be debt free for the first time at 34 years old (in about 4-5 months) outside of my mortgage. It's amazing how much debt affects your life, your family, your emotional health, your physical health. I will never again be a slave to it.
Excellent post. I do think that there should be financial management classes taught at schools from elementary school on through college. As a matter of fact it should be a required course for all degrees. I don't think relying on parents teaching it is a wise move. I also agree that people are inundated everywhere they turn by offers to borrow to buy what they want. Without a firm financial footing they make mistakes that exacerbate the problem with spending (it also doesn't help that our government borrows money like there is no limit).

I commend you on being debt free. We are there as a family (even though I am the only wage earner) and it is a great feeling. I do wish others could experience it as well, but we had to learn the hard way to get to this point.

It does amaze me how bad people are with money many times. I have a friend who took the Dave Ramsey classes and he has shared a lot of the insights from the classes he took and it blows me away. Dave Ramsey has made millions teaching people how to manage money in ways they should have known about from the get go. I do not fault Dave Ramsey and I highly respect him even if I do not agree with everything he preaches but he would be a nobody if people were doing the right things with money.
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Old 12-12-2013, 07:05 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by GloucesterChief View Post
False. The middle class grew rapidly during the industrial revolution. Companies needed managers, accountants, lawyers, engineers, clerks, draftsmen, salesmen, and other white collar labor. Previous to the industrial revolution the middle class was very small and consisted pretty much of skilled craftsmen, whose entry was restricted by guilds, and merchants. The only rich folk were part of the nobility or the church.

And that did not create a vibrant middle class.


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And as it turned out were payed more then their actual worth once competition from other countries started coming into the American market. Also, if you were black or in the South generally you were most likely poor.
This is pure garbage.

No, it didn't. America's economy boomed from the late 40's up until the late 70's. The majority of international competition had returned by the middle of the 50's. It did not take over 20 years for competition to return.


Our economy boomed because of incredibly cheap energy, cheap education and well-paying jobs that drove the biggest expansion of the middle class in our history

I would encourage you to look up the Brentton Woods System for information on how we controlled energy prices.

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And how do you propose to do that? The more government intervenes the more the income gap widens. More government regulation or taxes is not the solution.
Is complete B.S. too, as 30 years of deregulation has proven, besides ever single developed country out there.
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Old 12-12-2013, 07:06 AM   #114
Loneiguana Loneiguana is offline
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Bummer. Here's the thing: You and I will discuss nothing. There are folks here that I respect and those I don't.

That's fine, I don't respect idiots you demonize hard working Americans as lazy.

Especially when there is no evidence there are lazy.
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Old 12-12-2013, 07:20 AM   #115
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If you look at each group on their own merits, without comparing them to others, the top 80% are all doing pretty well. Anyone on that chart in the second 20% or higher is making decent money and with any type of good monetary habits should not be struggling. Anyone in the bottom 20% has every opportunity to move up on the chart.
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Old 12-12-2013, 07:22 AM   #116
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Originally Posted by mr. tegu View Post
If you look at each group on their own merits, without comparing them to others, the top 80% are all doing pretty well. Anyone on that chart in the second 20% or higher is making decent money and with any type of good monetary habits should not be struggling. Anyone in the bottom 20% has every opportunity to move up on the chart.
But, but, they have MOORE than me!
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Old 12-12-2013, 07:26 AM   #117
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And that did not create a vibrant middle class.
The industrial revolution was DEFINITELY where the middle-class began to emerge. Then the step up to higher standards evolved gradually from there. The rise out of poverty is generational. It does not happen overnight. Unless you read progressive history (aka Marxist influenced) then you'd say otherwise.

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Is complete B.S. too, as 30 years of deregulation has proven, besides ever single developed country out there.
This is FALSE and inaccurate. The Federal Register grew all those years. Even under Reagan there was a slight fraction less. The Federal Register stayed close to it's already thick size.

"Thou art so leaky that we must leave thee to thy sinking."
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Old 12-12-2013, 07:28 AM   #118
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That's fine
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Old 12-12-2013, 08:39 AM   #119
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Originally Posted by jaa1025 View Post
I agree that it's self inflicted. But to be honest, I don't blame people. They are a product of the way this nation pushes people. I was not taught at a young age the value of saving. We didn't have money growing up and it was pay check to pay check. There was no classes to teach me the value of saving throughout my early education. In college, I never learned. In fact, my campus was littered with Credit Card booths offering free Tshirts etc for signing up. Our government teaches us that it's ok to borrow. TV adds brainwash us to think that we need items that we don't.

I will be debt free for the first time at 34 years old (in about 4-5 months) outside of my mortgage. It's amazing how much debt affects your life, your family, your emotional health, your physical health. I will never again be a slave to it.
That is fantastic
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Old 12-12-2013, 08:40 AM   #120
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Originally Posted by mr. tegu View Post
If you look at each group on their own merits, without comparing them to others, the top 80% are all doing pretty well. Anyone on that chart in the second 20% or higher is making decent money and with any type of good monetary habits should not be struggling. Anyone in the bottom 20% has every opportunity to move up on the chart.

Its all bullshit numbers. These charts and all that don't tell squat.
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