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Old 12-11-2013, 12:31 AM  
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Do you think we have a crisis with income equality and/or economic mobility?

Both are currently at all time lows.

Do you believe we have a severe problem on this front, and what specifically do you believe is the solution to rectifying it?

I look forward to an illuminating thread.
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Old 12-12-2013, 08:53 AM   #121
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Originally Posted by mr. tegu View Post
If you look at each group on their own merits, without comparing them to others, the top 80% are all doing pretty well. Anyone on that chart in the second 20% or higher is making decent money and with any type of good monetary habits should not be struggling. Anyone in the bottom 20% has every opportunity to move up on the chart.
That depends on their definition of "family".

A "family" income of 42k is not "doing pretty well" if that includes 2 earners. For that matter, neither is 65k.
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Old 12-12-2013, 09:04 AM   #122
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Originally Posted by jspchief View Post
That depends on their definition of "family".

A "family" income of 42k is not "doing pretty well" if that includes 2 earners. For that matter, neither is 65k.
Particularly when you consider inflation which is not reported accurately.
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Old 12-12-2013, 09:10 AM   #123
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
You continue to show you have no idea about the economy.
Pot calling kettle.

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You do realize that buying power isn't dictated by the value of the currency, but of the value of the labor that generated it, right?
Nope it's not all one thing.


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Printing money, destroying money, they have next to no impact on the health or activity of an economy.
Nope
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Seriously. I'm tired of hearing this. You learned this in middle school history class when you talked about post WWI Germany. You unlearn this in econ 101 unless your professor is a biased piece of garbage.
Nope. You're just brainwashed and that can happen in college. Until you get out and experience life, work and starting a business first hand. You ever do any of that? Nope.

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Oh wait, you never went to College and base your economic views on trash websites that cater to your already held beliefs.

/you are stupid

Wow! Authoritarian aren't we. Would you say that to Abe Lincoln?

College is not the ultimate in learning. Learning takes place your whole life...if you're open to it.
But I'm talking about learning not ideological propaganda.

Learning economics in college is where YOU got taught according to the professors already held beliefs. I mean "beliefs" is a poor choice of words. Aren't you an English major? Tsk! Tsk!

I challenge the status quo. I've been able to change my mind because I inspected new data and then switched sides. This is true of some heavyweights in Austrian (free-market economics) such as Henry Hazlitt and Walter Block who were former leftists. Hazlitt was Marxist and Blocks jokes about being the former commie. These are men that were able to learn new things because they were open to it. You can't.

I did not learn from websites I studied with some of these free-market professors, who were teaching at some colleges, at a private institution. They now have websites like most anybody else, including our govt. They are used as a quick go to for this venue of discussion.

Got nuthin' 'eh? It's obvious. The truth is causing you to meltdown into a blathering idiot who cannot make sound economic arguments but who is making moral arguments and doesn't even know he's doing it because he doesn't know the difference between the two. Those are points of logic.
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Old 12-12-2013, 09:10 AM   #124
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Old 12-12-2013, 09:18 AM   #125
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You can start with removing the Bush tax cuts completly. Return the tax code to what it was under Clinton.

Stop corporate welfare. $3 billion a year to help big oil? $2 billion to big corporate farms instead of the family farmer. Etc.

Put in place programs that help people help themselves. Motivate them to take risks and believe in themselfs. Embrace science and education, not excessive greed.
If you remove all corporate welfare you'd actually hurt teacher pensions. To my knowledge they are funded through some of that. It's all an integrated game. ( ponzi scheme)

Also, if you deny other groups any welfare, then you don't have equality under the law. There's welfare for the poor, the middle-class, small businesses and big businesses. We live in the welfare state under a managed economy.

Tons of money has been thrown at education without any real improvements. You're calling for things that DO NOT work.
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Old 12-12-2013, 09:27 AM   #126
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
Is complete B.S. too, as 30 years of deregulation has proven, besides ever single developed country out there.
The US economic cannot be described as free since the New Deal. Even before that it was "mixed"-- combination of economic freedom and government regulation. FDR's New Deal altered the "'mix' substantially toward regulation and away from freedom."
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The deregulation of the late 1970s and 1980s reversed some of the regulations that came with the New Deal and some that preceded it, but the net amount of regulation has been much higher in the alleged era of deregulation than it was during the post–National Recovery Administration New Deal. Moreover, most of the apparent “market failures” that these articles refer to fall into one of two categories: Either they are not market failures at all, but market successes, or they are failures that are due to government regulation.
Just because deregulation was favored by some economists and a minority of politicians in the late 70s and early 80's, means it was never really implemented much. Not enough politicians supported it.

Tell me how much the Federal Register has shrunk?
Answer: 72,844 pages under Carter and rose to 75,526 under Bush Jr. It fell somewhat under Reagan but not enough to be labelled a "free market" or an "unregulated" market.

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The Federal Register, which lists new regulations, averaged 72,844 pages annually during the Carter years from 1977 to 1980. These were presumably, by Pearlstein’s 25-year standard, the last time before now that Americans didn’t have “faith” in open, unregulated markets. Then the average fell to 54,335 during the Reagan years, rose to 59, 527 during the Bush I years, to 71,590 during the Clinton years, and, finally, to a record 75,526 during the administration of that great believer in laissez-faire, George W. Bush. It’s true that when governments deregulate, they must announce those changes in the Federal Register, too, and so some of the pages represent genuine deregulation. But most of the pages were new regulations, no matter what president was in power at the time. So, far from moving away from regulation, the U.S. economy became even more regulated during Pearlstein’s alleged 25-year era of light regulation.
http://www.cato.org/policy-report/no...h-deregulation
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Old 12-12-2013, 09:33 AM   #127
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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More on regulation

You also need to distinguish the different kinds of regulation. The creation of the DHS has increased regulation on all of us substantially.
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Of course, the number of pages in the Federal Register is a crude measure of regulation. But it’s not the only measure we need rely on. Veronique de Rugy and Melinda Warren, in “Regulatory Agency Spending Reaches New Height,” an August 2008 report by the Mercatus Center and the Weidenbaum Center, found that between 1980 and 2007, roughly the years that Pearlstein labels “unregulated,” the number of full-time employees of U.S. government regulatory agencies increased 63 percent, from 146,139 to 238,351. During that same time, the U.S. population rose from 226.5 million to about 301 million, an increase of only 33 percent. Moreover, according to de Rugy and Warren, U.S. government spending on regulation alone (not including compliance costs, a much bigger number) tripled, from $13.5 billion to $40.8 billion (all in 2000-year dollars.) As a percent of GDP, spending on regulation rose from 0.26 percent to 0.35 percent, a 35-percent increase. Some deregulation.

same link as just before
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Old 12-12-2013, 09:55 AM   #128
mr. tegu mr. tegu is offline
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Originally Posted by jspchief View Post
That depends on their definition of "family".

A "family" income of 42k is not "doing pretty well" if that includes 2 earners. For that matter, neither is 65k.
True, the chart doesn't really explain that. I would still argue earning around 40K is an acceptable income for a family. Sure they aren't living in luxury but if they are smart with money they would still be getting by okay. And a family earning 65K or more should have no reason other than their own frivolous spending habits (and of course circumstances beyond their control) to be in financial disarray. You don't think 65K qualifies as doing pretty well?

Everyone wants more, but obviously it is easier to grow your income with more money, which is why the higher the income, the higher the increase percentage is. That just seems like common sense to me and is just a natural product of the economy.
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Old 12-12-2013, 10:26 AM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
The industrial revolution was DEFINITELY where the middle-class began to emerge. Then the step up to higher standards evolved gradually from there. The rise out of poverty is generational. It does not happen overnight. Unless you read progressive history (aka Marxist influenced) then you'd say otherwise.



This is FALSE and inaccurate. The Federal Register grew all those years. Even under Reagan there was a slight fraction less. The Federal Register stayed close to it's already thick size.

"Thou art so leaky that we must leave thee to thy sinking."
Stupid poster is stupid.
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Old 12-12-2013, 10:27 AM   #130
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Pot calling kettle.


Nope it's not all one thing.



Nope


Nope. You're just brainwashed and that can happen in college. Until you get out and experience life, work and starting a business first hand. You ever do any of that? Nope.




Wow! Authoritarian aren't we. Would you say that to Abe Lincoln?

College is not the ultimate in learning. Learning takes place your whole life...if you're open to it.
But I'm talking about learning not ideological propaganda.

Learning economics in college is where YOU got taught according to the professors already held beliefs. I mean "beliefs" is a poor choice of words. Aren't you an English major? Tsk! Tsk!

I challenge the status quo. I've been able to change my mind because I inspected new data and then switched sides. This is true of some heavyweights in Austrian (free-market economics) such as Henry Hazlitt and Walter Block who were former leftists. Hazlitt was Marxist and Blocks jokes about being the former commie. These are men that were able to learn new things because they were open to it. You can't.

I did not learn from websites I studied with some of these free-market professors, who were teaching at some colleges, at a private institution. They now have websites like most anybody else, including our govt. They are used as a quick go to for this venue of discussion.

Got nuthin' 'eh? It's obvious. The truth is causing you to meltdown into a blathering idiot who cannot make sound economic arguments but who is making moral arguments and doesn't even know he's doing it because he doesn't know the difference between the two. Those are points of logic.

And you continue to show you have no understanding of the economy.

going "nope" is such an excellent rebuttal. You can't even explain why that is wrong. Because it isn't. It was a sound economic argument that you went "nope" too. Why, It just doesn't fit your view, so you don't want to acknowledge it.

But go ahead and claim you made a sound economic argument when you didn't even say why printing money is bad. Or explain why I said was wrong.
Bep believe economy equals magic.

You are stupid and you are lazy
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Old 12-12-2013, 10:42 AM   #131
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Stupid poster is stupid.
And you call me lazy.
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Old 12-12-2013, 10:44 AM   #132
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Do you think we have a crisis with income equality and/or economic mobility?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. tegu View Post
True, the chart doesn't really explain that. I would still argue earning around 40K is an acceptable income for a family. Sure they aren't living in luxury but if they are smart with money they would still be getting by okay. And a family earning 65K or more should have no reason other than their own frivolous spending habits (and of course circumstances beyond their control) to be in financial disarray. You don't think 65K qualifies as doing pretty well?

Everyone wants more, but obviously it is easier to grow your income with more money, which is why the higher the income, the higher the increase percentage is. That just seems like common sense to me and is just a natural product of the economy.
They might have been barely okay before Obamacare, but they're screwed now.

Does anyone know if such a family would pay anything out of pocket for their insurance?
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Old 12-12-2013, 10:46 AM   #133
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
And you continue to show you have no understanding of the economy.
Pot calling kettle.
Quote:
going "nope" is such an excellent rebuttal. You can't even explain why that is wrong.
Actually I can but you're a waste of time. as you have shown. I do that to show you how you are not worth it.

I think you know deep down no details of mine is going to change your mind or even be acknowledged.

Quote:
Because it isn't. It was a sound economic argument that you went "nope" too. Why, It just doesn't fit your view, so you don't want to acknowledge it.
Have already done so with you...but you never see it.

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But go ahead and claim you made a sound economic argument when you didn't even say why printing money is bad.
I said why in many other posts with you BUT it never goes in because YOU ignore it. So why waste more time. It's like talking to concrete.

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Or explain why I said was wrong.
Bep believe economy equals magic.
I have many times. You believe regulation = magic.

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You are stupid and you are lazy
Pot calling kettle.
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Old 12-12-2013, 11:48 AM   #134
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Originally Posted by mr. tegu View Post
True, the chart doesn't really explain that. I would still argue earning around 40K is an acceptable income for a family. Sure they aren't living in luxury but if they are smart with money they would still be getting by okay. And a family earning 65K or more should have no reason other than their own frivolous spending habits (and of course circumstances beyond their control) to be in financial disarray. You don't think 65K qualifies as doing pretty well?

Everyone wants more, but obviously it is easier to grow your income with more money, which is why the higher the income, the higher the increase percentage is. That just seems like common sense to me and is just a natural product of the economy.
65k is doing well? Not in my area.
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Old 12-12-2013, 12:08 PM   #135
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65k is doing well? Not in my area.
Ron Paul and the Austrians claim we've lost 50% of our buying power since 2008. I think that's true on some things but not all. But $65 is no longer doing well. It buys much less.
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