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Old 12-12-2013, 11:04 AM  
gblowfish gblowfish is offline
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Understanding Poverty

20 things the poor deal with daily:

http://benirwin.wordpress.com/2013/1...-do-every-day/

Dave Ramsey probably wasn’t expecting this much pushback when he shared a piece by Tim Corley contrasting the habits of the rich with those of the poor. In her response on CNN, Rachel Held Evans noted that Ramsey and Corley mistake correlation for causality when they suggest (without actually proving) that these habits are the cause of a person’s financial situation. (Did it never occur to them that it might be the other way around?)

Ramsey fired back, calling the pushback “immature and ignorant.” This from a guy who just made 20 sweeping assertions about 47 million poor people in the US — all based on a survey of 361 individuals.

That’s right. To come up with his 20 habits, Corley talked to just 233 wealthy people and 128 poor people. Ramsey can talk all he wants about Corley’s research passing the “common-sense smell test,” but it doesn’t pass the “research methodology 101” test.

To balance the picture a bit, I wanted to take a fact-based look at 20 things the poor do on a daily basis…

1. Search for affordable housing.
Especially in urban areas, the waiting list for affordable housing can be a year or more. During that time, poor families either have to make do with substandard or dangerous housing, depend on the hospitality of relatives, or go homeless.
(Source: New York Times)

2. Try to make $133 worth of food last a whole month.
That’s how much the average food stamp recipient gets each month. Imagine trying to eat well on $4.38 per day. It’s not easy, which is why many impoverished families resort to #3…
(Source: Kaiser Family Foundation)

3. Subsist on poor quality food.
Not because they want to, but because they can’t afford high-quality, nutritious food. They’re trapped in a food system that subsidizes processed foods, making them artificially cheaper than natural food sources. So the poor are forced to eat bad food — if they’re lucky, that is…
(Sources: Washington Post; Journal of Nutrition, March 2008)

4. Skip a meal.
One in six Americans are food insecure. Which means (among other things) that they’re sometimes forced to go without eating.
(Sources: World Vision, US Department of Agriculture)

5. Work longer and harder than most of us.
While it’s popular to think people are poor because they’re lazy (which seems to be the whole point of Ramsey’s post), the poor actually work longer and harder than the rest of us. More than 80 percent of impoverished children have at least one parent who works; 60 percent have at least one parent who works full-time. Overall, the poor work longer hours than the so-called “job creators.”
(Source: Poverty and Learning, April 2008)

6. Go to bed 3 hours before their first job starts.
Number 15 on Ramsey and Corley’s list was, “44% of [the] wealthy wake up three hours before work starts vs. 3% of [the] poor.” It may be true that most poor people don’t wake up three hours before work starts. But that could be because they’re more likely to work multiple jobs, in which case job #1 means they’re probably just getting to bed three hours before job #2 starts.
(Source: Poverty and Learning, April 2008)

7. Try to avoid getting beat up by someone they love.
According to some estimates, half of all homeless women in America ran away to escape domestic violence.
(Source: National Coalition for the Homeless, 2009)

8. Put themselves in harm’s way, only to be kicked to the streets afterward.
How else do you explain 67,000 63,000 homeless veterans?
(Source: US Department of Veterans Affairs, updated to reflect the most recent data)

9. Pay more than their fair share of taxes.
Some conservative pundits and politicians like to think the poor don’t pay their fair share, that they are merely “takers.” While it’s true the poor don’t pay as much in federal income tax — usually because they don’t earn enough to qualify — they do pay sales tax, payroll tax, etc. In fact, the bottom 20% of earners pay TWICE as much in taxes (as a share of their income) as do the top 1%.
(Source: Institute on Taxation & Economic Policy, January 2013)

10. Fall further behind.
Even when poverty is the result of poor decision-making, often it’s someone else’s choices that make the difference. If you experience poverty as a child, you are 3-4 times less likely to graduate high school. If you spend your entire childhood in poverty, you are 5 times less likely to graduate. Which means your future has been all but decided for you.
(Sources: World Vision, Children’s Defense Fund, Annie E. Casey Foundation)

11. Raise kids who will be poor.
A child’s future earnings are closely correlated to their parents’ earnings. In other words, economic mobility — the idea that you can claw your way out of poverty if you just try hard enough is, more often than not, a myth.
(Sources: OECD, Economic Policy Institute)

12. Vote less.
And who can blame them? I would be less inclined to vote if I didn’t have easy access to the polls and if I were subjected to draconian voter ID laws that are sold to the public as necessary to suppress nonexistent voter fraud.
(Source: The Center for Voting and Democracy)

13. When they do vote… vote pretty much the same as the rest of us.
Following their defeat in 2012, conservatives took solace by reasoning that they’d lost to a bunch of “takers,” including the poor, who voted for Democrats because they want free handouts from big government. The reality is a bit more complex. Only a third of low-income voters identify as Democrats, about the same for all Americans, including wealthy voters.
(Sources: NPR, Pew Research Center)

14. Live with chronic pain.
Those earning less than $12,000 a year are twice as likely to report feeling physical pain on any given day.
(Source: Kaiser Health News)

15. Live shorter lives.
There is a 10-14 year gap in life expectancy between the rich and the poor. In recent years, poor people’s life expectancy has actually declined — in America, the wealthiest nation on the planet.
(Source: Health Affairs, 2012)

16. Use drugs and alcohol pretty much the same as (or less than) everyone else.
Despite the common picture of inner city crack houses, drug use is pretty evenly spread across income groups. And rich people actually abuse alcohol more than the poor.
(Source: Poverty and Learning, April 2008)

17. Receive less in subsidized benefits than corporations.
The US government spends around $60 billion on public housing and rental subsidies for low-income families, compared to more than $90 billion on corporate subsidies. Oil companies alone get around $70 billion. And that’s not counting the nearly $60 billion a year in tax breaks corporations enjoy by sheltering profits offshore. Or the $700 billion bailout banks got in 2008.
(Source: Think By Numbers)

18. Get themselves off welfare as soon as possible.
Despite the odds, the vast majority of beneficiaries leave the welfare rolls within five years. Even in the absence of official welfare-to-work programming, most welfare recipients enroll in some form of vocational training. Why? Because they’re desperate to get off welfare.
(Source: US Department of Health and Human Services)

19. Have about the same number of children as everyone else.
No, poor people do not have loads of children just so they can stay on welfare.
(Source: US Department of Health and Human Services)

20. Accomplish one single goal: stay alive.
Poverty in America may not be as dire as poverty in other parts of the world, but many working poor families are nonetheless preoccupied with day-to-day survival. For them, life is not something to be enjoyed so much as endured.

These are the real habits of the poor, those with whom Jesus identifies most closely.
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Old 12-13-2013, 01:48 PM   #136
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I've been saying this for years. Food stamps, unemployment, welfare - any social assistance should require work. They might has well make it a government jobs program.

Taxes are also far too low on the upper incomes. And I'm not talking about $250k/year. I mean $10 million plus per year. Bring back the top tax rates of 50% to 90%. Force companies to invest in the business rather than extract out of it and then sit on it. There's a reason that all of these companies are just sitting on trillions of wealth - it is human nature to hoard. It's government's role to redistribute and make sure the economy can continue to flourish for all.
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Old 12-13-2013, 01:48 PM   #137
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Jesus Christ people, Food Stamps DO require work. Unemployment... Guess what, that means you had to have a job. Hence Unemployment. You don't get unemployment without working.
You don't need work to have food stamps.

Of course you have to have been working previously, but you're still being paid to sit at home. Makes no sense.
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Old 12-13-2013, 01:57 PM   #138
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We didn't have gangs in our neighborhood.

Also, I've never bragged about being catholic either. I wasn't raised in a church. I've probably attended less than 15 worship services in my entire life.

closet case homosexual is closet case.
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Worthless bitch is worthless.
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Actually, I do want that. You are a hateful, racist, homophobic piece of shit. The world will be a better place when you leave it.
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You suck at life. Eat a bullet and quit wasting our oxygen.
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You are one of the stupidest, most gullible posters on the board.
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Yes. We've covered this before. Several other posters have shown you how you are misguided on this and I have no intention of rehashing it with you dildo.
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Calling you a bitch isn't sexist.
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dumb old man is dumb.
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Old 12-13-2013, 02:05 PM   #139
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How much time did you waste doing that luddite?
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Old 12-13-2013, 03:29 PM   #140
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How much time did you waste doing that luddite?
Oh maybe 2 minutes considering it's almost every post you made in this thread.
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Old 12-13-2013, 04:06 PM   #141
RedNeckRaider RedNeckRaider is offline
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Oh maybe 2 minutes considering it's almost every post you made in this thread.
This clown is not worthy of much effort. He is a small little mind that flexes muscles on a keyboard. He claims to be an expert on many subjects and plays the role of a badass. His game is to engage with snipe remarks normally with the **** is a **** he does this in the hope you will get angry enough to respond with with some sort of racist name calling. This allows this shitbag to play the victim role. As you have quoted him wishing death or some other vile bullshit exposes him for what he is. I have read some over the top attacks against him however if you have knowledge of his history it was warranted. I used to only respond when he replied to me. Lately I have ****ed with him just because he is a troll. I could careless what color he is. He is such a phony prick it wouldn't surprise me is he is white only using color as a tool to troll. Once you remove his victim tool he is rather fun to **** with
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Old 12-13-2013, 04:17 PM   #142
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I've been saying this for years. Food stamps, unemployment, welfare - any social assistance should require work. They might has well make it a government jobs program.

Taxes are also far too low on the upper incomes. And I'm not talking about $250k/year. I mean $10 million plus per year. Bring back the top tax rates of 50% to 90%. Force companies to invest in the business rather than extract out of it and then sit on it. There's a reason that all of these companies are just sitting on trillions of wealth - it is human nature to hoard. It's government's role to redistribute and make sure the economy can continue to flourish for all.
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Old 12-13-2013, 04:17 PM   #143
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I've been saying this for years. Food stamps, unemployment, welfare - any social assistance should require work. They might has well make it a government jobs program.

Taxes are also far too low on the upper incomes. And I'm not talking about $250k/year. I mean $10 million plus per year. Bring back the top tax rates of 50% to 90%. Force companies to invest in the business rather than extract out of it and then sit on it. There's a reason that all of these companies are just sitting on trillions of wealth - it is human nature to hoard. It's government's role to redistribute and make sure the economy can continue to flourish for all.

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WOW
Yeah I know, it sounds crazy. But for 50 years (1930 to 1980) we had a top tax rate that fluctuated between 70% and 90%. It did not serve to increase revenue (had little effect on greater revenue), it served as a redistribution mechanism.

It's like the game of Monopoly. As the game goes on, one player ends up with all of the money and the other players are eliminated because they can't afford the "rents" to make it around the board. The game ends. That's what is happening now. Unless wealth and income is more evenly distributed, the "game" will end.

This country has seen this type of income and wealth inequality before, and each time it has ended in a depression. It will happen again unless things are changed drastically and quickly.
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Old 12-13-2013, 04:22 PM   #144
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What else is government's role, if not to redistribute? I don't understand why everyone thinks that is such a dirty word. All of us, as citizens, have a stake in "the commons." The land, water, air, and all other resources are OURS. So if a big company like Apple, Google, or GE ends up becoming extremely successful, why shouldn't we all benefit from that? Why should ALL of the wealth go to the top .0001%?

EVERYONE in a society has a hand in wealth accumulation, not just those at the top. All of this worship of "job creators" is nonsense. Without demand, and ability to pay, the game is over. We are dangerously close to a critical point where there are more people with no ability to pay than those who can. And that will mean economic disaster.
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Old 12-13-2013, 04:32 PM   #145
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I'm glad I have race card native on ignore. He brings nothing to this forum but name calling. I think he's mad because he has the smallest of pee pees.
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Old 12-13-2013, 04:34 PM   #146
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What else is government's role, if not to redistribute? I don't understand why everyone thinks that is such a dirty word. All of us, as citizens, have a stake in "the commons." The land, water, air, and all other resources are OURS. So if a big company like Apple, Google, or GE ends up becoming extremely successful, why shouldn't we all benefit from that? Why should ALL of the wealth go to the top .0001%?

EVERYONE in a society has a hand in wealth accumulation, not just those at the top. All of this worship of "job creators" is nonsense. Without demand, and ability to pay, the game is over. We are dangerously close to a critical point where there are more people with no ability to pay than those who can. And that will mean economic disaster.
Personal Responsibilty is who should be feeding, clothing, and housing you. Taxes should be collected to do the things like defense, police, fire,roads and things like that everybody uses. It should not be the Government but charitable organizations that help the needy. I am not saying there should not be a safety net.

The problem with allowing the Government to handle everything is exactly the situation we have now. They try and do way too much. It causes catering to special interests. And they are always seeking way to increase revenue. Just look at Social Security and Medicare and the problems they have. The system is so freakishly huge they can't manage it. Which is why there is so much fraud, waste and abuse.
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Old 12-13-2013, 04:40 PM   #147
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I'm glad I have race card native on ignore. He brings nothing to this forum but name calling. I think he's mad because he has the smallest of pee pees.
Why? He is better than a rigged slot machine. I would never deny myself the countless laughs the bozo provides~
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Old 12-13-2013, 04:43 PM   #148
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Why? He is better than a rigged slot machine. I would never deny myself the countless laughs the bozo provides~
I find it amusing when people put someone on ignore and then post shit talking. It's like getting into an argument with an idiot who just randomly says shit and puts his fingers in his ears so he can say "nah, nah, boo, boo. I can't hear you."

I thought the whole purpose of ignore was so you wouldn't have to deal with a ****er no more.

BTW, I just put fairplay on ignore so I don't have to hear what he said back.
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Old 12-13-2013, 04:53 PM   #149
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I find it amusing when people put someone on ignore and then post shit talking. It's like getting into an argument with an idiot who just randomly says shit and puts his fingers in his ears so he can say "nah, nah, boo, boo. I can't hear you."

I thought the whole purpose of ignore was so you wouldn't have to deal with a ****er no more.

BTW, I just put fairplay on ignore so I don't have to hear what he said back.
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Old 12-13-2013, 05:00 PM   #150
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