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Old 12-12-2013, 12:04 PM  
gblowfish gblowfish is offline
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Understanding Poverty

20 things the poor deal with daily:

http://benirwin.wordpress.com/2013/1...-do-every-day/

Dave Ramsey probably wasn’t expecting this much pushback when he shared a piece by Tim Corley contrasting the habits of the rich with those of the poor. In her response on CNN, Rachel Held Evans noted that Ramsey and Corley mistake correlation for causality when they suggest (without actually proving) that these habits are the cause of a person’s financial situation. (Did it never occur to them that it might be the other way around?)

Ramsey fired back, calling the pushback “immature and ignorant.” This from a guy who just made 20 sweeping assertions about 47 million poor people in the US — all based on a survey of 361 individuals.

That’s right. To come up with his 20 habits, Corley talked to just 233 wealthy people and 128 poor people. Ramsey can talk all he wants about Corley’s research passing the “common-sense smell test,” but it doesn’t pass the “research methodology 101” test.

To balance the picture a bit, I wanted to take a fact-based look at 20 things the poor do on a daily basis…

1. Search for affordable housing.
Especially in urban areas, the waiting list for affordable housing can be a year or more. During that time, poor families either have to make do with substandard or dangerous housing, depend on the hospitality of relatives, or go homeless.
(Source: New York Times)

2. Try to make $133 worth of food last a whole month.
That’s how much the average food stamp recipient gets each month. Imagine trying to eat well on $4.38 per day. It’s not easy, which is why many impoverished families resort to #3…
(Source: Kaiser Family Foundation)

3. Subsist on poor quality food.
Not because they want to, but because they can’t afford high-quality, nutritious food. They’re trapped in a food system that subsidizes processed foods, making them artificially cheaper than natural food sources. So the poor are forced to eat bad food — if they’re lucky, that is…
(Sources: Washington Post; Journal of Nutrition, March 2008)

4. Skip a meal.
One in six Americans are food insecure. Which means (among other things) that they’re sometimes forced to go without eating.
(Sources: World Vision, US Department of Agriculture)

5. Work longer and harder than most of us.
While it’s popular to think people are poor because they’re lazy (which seems to be the whole point of Ramsey’s post), the poor actually work longer and harder than the rest of us. More than 80 percent of impoverished children have at least one parent who works; 60 percent have at least one parent who works full-time. Overall, the poor work longer hours than the so-called “job creators.”
(Source: Poverty and Learning, April 2008)

6. Go to bed 3 hours before their first job starts.
Number 15 on Ramsey and Corley’s list was, “44% of [the] wealthy wake up three hours before work starts vs. 3% of [the] poor.” It may be true that most poor people don’t wake up three hours before work starts. But that could be because they’re more likely to work multiple jobs, in which case job #1 means they’re probably just getting to bed three hours before job #2 starts.
(Source: Poverty and Learning, April 2008)

7. Try to avoid getting beat up by someone they love.
According to some estimates, half of all homeless women in America ran away to escape domestic violence.
(Source: National Coalition for the Homeless, 2009)

8. Put themselves in harm’s way, only to be kicked to the streets afterward.
How else do you explain 67,000 63,000 homeless veterans?
(Source: US Department of Veterans Affairs, updated to reflect the most recent data)

9. Pay more than their fair share of taxes.
Some conservative pundits and politicians like to think the poor don’t pay their fair share, that they are merely “takers.” While it’s true the poor don’t pay as much in federal income tax — usually because they don’t earn enough to qualify — they do pay sales tax, payroll tax, etc. In fact, the bottom 20% of earners pay TWICE as much in taxes (as a share of their income) as do the top 1%.
(Source: Institute on Taxation & Economic Policy, January 2013)

10. Fall further behind.
Even when poverty is the result of poor decision-making, often it’s someone else’s choices that make the difference. If you experience poverty as a child, you are 3-4 times less likely to graduate high school. If you spend your entire childhood in poverty, you are 5 times less likely to graduate. Which means your future has been all but decided for you.
(Sources: World Vision, Children’s Defense Fund, Annie E. Casey Foundation)

11. Raise kids who will be poor.
A child’s future earnings are closely correlated to their parents’ earnings. In other words, economic mobility — the idea that you can claw your way out of poverty if you just try hard enough is, more often than not, a myth.
(Sources: OECD, Economic Policy Institute)

12. Vote less.
And who can blame them? I would be less inclined to vote if I didn’t have easy access to the polls and if I were subjected to draconian voter ID laws that are sold to the public as necessary to suppress nonexistent voter fraud.
(Source: The Center for Voting and Democracy)

13. When they do vote… vote pretty much the same as the rest of us.
Following their defeat in 2012, conservatives took solace by reasoning that they’d lost to a bunch of “takers,” including the poor, who voted for Democrats because they want free handouts from big government. The reality is a bit more complex. Only a third of low-income voters identify as Democrats, about the same for all Americans, including wealthy voters.
(Sources: NPR, Pew Research Center)

14. Live with chronic pain.
Those earning less than $12,000 a year are twice as likely to report feeling physical pain on any given day.
(Source: Kaiser Health News)

15. Live shorter lives.
There is a 10-14 year gap in life expectancy between the rich and the poor. In recent years, poor people’s life expectancy has actually declined — in America, the wealthiest nation on the planet.
(Source: Health Affairs, 2012)

16. Use drugs and alcohol pretty much the same as (or less than) everyone else.
Despite the common picture of inner city crack houses, drug use is pretty evenly spread across income groups. And rich people actually abuse alcohol more than the poor.
(Source: Poverty and Learning, April 2008)

17. Receive less in subsidized benefits than corporations.
The US government spends around $60 billion on public housing and rental subsidies for low-income families, compared to more than $90 billion on corporate subsidies. Oil companies alone get around $70 billion. And that’s not counting the nearly $60 billion a year in tax breaks corporations enjoy by sheltering profits offshore. Or the $700 billion bailout banks got in 2008.
(Source: Think By Numbers)

18. Get themselves off welfare as soon as possible.
Despite the odds, the vast majority of beneficiaries leave the welfare rolls within five years. Even in the absence of official welfare-to-work programming, most welfare recipients enroll in some form of vocational training. Why? Because they’re desperate to get off welfare.
(Source: US Department of Health and Human Services)

19. Have about the same number of children as everyone else.
No, poor people do not have loads of children just so they can stay on welfare.
(Source: US Department of Health and Human Services)

20. Accomplish one single goal: stay alive.
Poverty in America may not be as dire as poverty in other parts of the world, but many working poor families are nonetheless preoccupied with day-to-day survival. For them, life is not something to be enjoyed so much as endured.

These are the real habits of the poor, those with whom Jesus identifies most closely.
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Old 12-12-2013, 02:32 PM   #31
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Yea, still not funny nor do you actually make a point.

You suck at life. Eat a bullet and quit wasting our oxygen.
But you don't want that, I'm the white office worker you need to tax to pay for your social engineering. If I die you're left with no other plans since its all you can come up with.
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Old 12-12-2013, 02:38 PM   #32
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But you don't want that, I'm the white office worker you need to tax to pay for your social engineering. If I die you're left with no other plans since its all you can come up with.
Actually, I do want that. You are a hateful, racist, homophobic piece of shit. The world will be a better place when you leave it.
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Old 12-12-2013, 02:39 PM   #33
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Everytime one of you dumbass's rambles on about how the Subsidized life is better than working i just wanna smack the shit out of you for being so ****ing retarded.
Who does that?
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Old 12-12-2013, 02:47 PM   #34
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I know the programs inside and out and could actually make more money sitting at home on my ass doing nothing than working everyday.
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Who does that?
I see it here and there. Enough for me to notice.
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Old 12-12-2013, 02:51 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Detoxing View Post
I see it here and there. Enough for me to notice.
Well, I suppose there are some people on welfare who simply are just lazy, stupid and/or unskilled to the point where what he says is accurate, no?
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Old 12-12-2013, 02:57 PM   #36
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Well, I suppose there are some people on welfare who simply are just lazy, stupid and/or unskilled to the point where what he says is accurate, no?
Oh absolutely. I agree with the point that Welfare recepts get more than $133 and that a lot of CBT users use it on junk food. Hell, i've seen people use CBT on lotto tickets.

But the notion that the Welfare life is better than that of the working class is just silly. Well, unless your ambition in life is to be an eating, shitting fly on the wall until you die...if that's the case...then like i said, maybe the subsidized life is for you.

But i wouldn't call that kinda life better than mine, that's for sure.
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Old 12-12-2013, 03:08 PM   #37
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I don't find the argument that the poor are doing well compared to Uganda's poor terribly compelling.

If you're struggling for healthcare, education, and housing, then your ability to get ahead in life is severely hampered.

Society has a responsibility to help these people. Particularly the working poor, who always seem to be forgotten when we talk about those lazy goodfernothings in the lowest economic quintile.
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Old 12-12-2013, 03:16 PM   #38
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I don't find the argument that the poor are doing well compared to Uganda's poor terribly compelling.

If you're struggling for healthcare, education, and housing, then your ability to get ahead in life is severely hampered.

Society has a responsibility to help these people. Particularly the working poor, who always seem to be forgotten when we talk about those lazy goodfernothings in the lowest economic quintile.
I would call welfare, Medicaid, etc. help, wouldn't you?
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Old 12-12-2013, 03:17 PM   #39
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Actually, I do want that. You are a hateful, racist, homophobic piece of shit. The world will be a better place when you leave it.
With an attitude like this it's no wonder you can't get your tax theft plans off te ground. You will need a plan B. Get crackin', tool.
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Old 12-12-2013, 03:20 PM   #40
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I would call welfare, Medicaid, etc. help, wouldn't you?
For the most part, the working poor don't qualify for those programs.
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Old 12-12-2013, 03:21 PM   #41
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For the most part, the working poor don't qualify for those programs.
Dumb.
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Old 12-12-2013, 03:21 PM   #42
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For the most part, the working poor don't qualify for those programs.
And you think they should qualify?
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Old 12-12-2013, 03:23 PM   #43
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For the most part, the working poor don't qualify for those programs.
It depends on what you define as working poor~
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Old 12-12-2013, 03:23 PM   #44
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Most of the poor people I know have 50"+ Tv, cable and iphones.

I talked to a friend last week who is a single father, lost his job. He was saying that on unemployment and food stamps while he goes to a short term school program he's actually getting a raise on welfare.

I'm not saying being poor is easy, but there are quite a number of people who are comfortable enough that they have no intention of trying to do better. I'd like to see things change to where it is encouraging for a person to work....that they'll have a better life.

I'd start by govt funded child care for working poor parents. I completely understand why it sucks to earn $10/hr and pay child care for 2-3 kids. Not hardly worth going when so much is gone. I'd also say remove payroll taxes for workers who earn under $12/hr.

I'd like to see that coupled with new limits and restrictions on EBT and food stamp programs to be more like WIC which defines healthy foods.
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Old 12-12-2013, 03:25 PM   #45
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Dumb.
Ignorant. You have no idea what you're talking about.
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