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Old 12-12-2013, 11:04 AM  
gblowfish gblowfish is offline
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Understanding Poverty

20 things the poor deal with daily:

http://benirwin.wordpress.com/2013/1...-do-every-day/

Dave Ramsey probably wasn’t expecting this much pushback when he shared a piece by Tim Corley contrasting the habits of the rich with those of the poor. In her response on CNN, Rachel Held Evans noted that Ramsey and Corley mistake correlation for causality when they suggest (without actually proving) that these habits are the cause of a person’s financial situation. (Did it never occur to them that it might be the other way around?)

Ramsey fired back, calling the pushback “immature and ignorant.” This from a guy who just made 20 sweeping assertions about 47 million poor people in the US — all based on a survey of 361 individuals.

That’s right. To come up with his 20 habits, Corley talked to just 233 wealthy people and 128 poor people. Ramsey can talk all he wants about Corley’s research passing the “common-sense smell test,” but it doesn’t pass the “research methodology 101” test.

To balance the picture a bit, I wanted to take a fact-based look at 20 things the poor do on a daily basis…

1. Search for affordable housing.
Especially in urban areas, the waiting list for affordable housing can be a year or more. During that time, poor families either have to make do with substandard or dangerous housing, depend on the hospitality of relatives, or go homeless.
(Source: New York Times)

2. Try to make $133 worth of food last a whole month.
That’s how much the average food stamp recipient gets each month. Imagine trying to eat well on $4.38 per day. It’s not easy, which is why many impoverished families resort to #3…
(Source: Kaiser Family Foundation)

3. Subsist on poor quality food.
Not because they want to, but because they can’t afford high-quality, nutritious food. They’re trapped in a food system that subsidizes processed foods, making them artificially cheaper than natural food sources. So the poor are forced to eat bad food — if they’re lucky, that is…
(Sources: Washington Post; Journal of Nutrition, March 2008)

4. Skip a meal.
One in six Americans are food insecure. Which means (among other things) that they’re sometimes forced to go without eating.
(Sources: World Vision, US Department of Agriculture)

5. Work longer and harder than most of us.
While it’s popular to think people are poor because they’re lazy (which seems to be the whole point of Ramsey’s post), the poor actually work longer and harder than the rest of us. More than 80 percent of impoverished children have at least one parent who works; 60 percent have at least one parent who works full-time. Overall, the poor work longer hours than the so-called “job creators.”
(Source: Poverty and Learning, April 2008)

6. Go to bed 3 hours before their first job starts.
Number 15 on Ramsey and Corley’s list was, “44% of [the] wealthy wake up three hours before work starts vs. 3% of [the] poor.” It may be true that most poor people don’t wake up three hours before work starts. But that could be because they’re more likely to work multiple jobs, in which case job #1 means they’re probably just getting to bed three hours before job #2 starts.
(Source: Poverty and Learning, April 2008)

7. Try to avoid getting beat up by someone they love.
According to some estimates, half of all homeless women in America ran away to escape domestic violence.
(Source: National Coalition for the Homeless, 2009)

8. Put themselves in harm’s way, only to be kicked to the streets afterward.
How else do you explain 67,000 63,000 homeless veterans?
(Source: US Department of Veterans Affairs, updated to reflect the most recent data)

9. Pay more than their fair share of taxes.
Some conservative pundits and politicians like to think the poor don’t pay their fair share, that they are merely “takers.” While it’s true the poor don’t pay as much in federal income tax — usually because they don’t earn enough to qualify — they do pay sales tax, payroll tax, etc. In fact, the bottom 20% of earners pay TWICE as much in taxes (as a share of their income) as do the top 1%.
(Source: Institute on Taxation & Economic Policy, January 2013)

10. Fall further behind.
Even when poverty is the result of poor decision-making, often it’s someone else’s choices that make the difference. If you experience poverty as a child, you are 3-4 times less likely to graduate high school. If you spend your entire childhood in poverty, you are 5 times less likely to graduate. Which means your future has been all but decided for you.
(Sources: World Vision, Children’s Defense Fund, Annie E. Casey Foundation)

11. Raise kids who will be poor.
A child’s future earnings are closely correlated to their parents’ earnings. In other words, economic mobility — the idea that you can claw your way out of poverty if you just try hard enough is, more often than not, a myth.
(Sources: OECD, Economic Policy Institute)

12. Vote less.
And who can blame them? I would be less inclined to vote if I didn’t have easy access to the polls and if I were subjected to draconian voter ID laws that are sold to the public as necessary to suppress nonexistent voter fraud.
(Source: The Center for Voting and Democracy)

13. When they do vote… vote pretty much the same as the rest of us.
Following their defeat in 2012, conservatives took solace by reasoning that they’d lost to a bunch of “takers,” including the poor, who voted for Democrats because they want free handouts from big government. The reality is a bit more complex. Only a third of low-income voters identify as Democrats, about the same for all Americans, including wealthy voters.
(Sources: NPR, Pew Research Center)

14. Live with chronic pain.
Those earning less than $12,000 a year are twice as likely to report feeling physical pain on any given day.
(Source: Kaiser Health News)

15. Live shorter lives.
There is a 10-14 year gap in life expectancy between the rich and the poor. In recent years, poor people’s life expectancy has actually declined — in America, the wealthiest nation on the planet.
(Source: Health Affairs, 2012)

16. Use drugs and alcohol pretty much the same as (or less than) everyone else.
Despite the common picture of inner city crack houses, drug use is pretty evenly spread across income groups. And rich people actually abuse alcohol more than the poor.
(Source: Poverty and Learning, April 2008)

17. Receive less in subsidized benefits than corporations.
The US government spends around $60 billion on public housing and rental subsidies for low-income families, compared to more than $90 billion on corporate subsidies. Oil companies alone get around $70 billion. And that’s not counting the nearly $60 billion a year in tax breaks corporations enjoy by sheltering profits offshore. Or the $700 billion bailout banks got in 2008.
(Source: Think By Numbers)

18. Get themselves off welfare as soon as possible.
Despite the odds, the vast majority of beneficiaries leave the welfare rolls within five years. Even in the absence of official welfare-to-work programming, most welfare recipients enroll in some form of vocational training. Why? Because they’re desperate to get off welfare.
(Source: US Department of Health and Human Services)

19. Have about the same number of children as everyone else.
No, poor people do not have loads of children just so they can stay on welfare.
(Source: US Department of Health and Human Services)

20. Accomplish one single goal: stay alive.
Poverty in America may not be as dire as poverty in other parts of the world, but many working poor families are nonetheless preoccupied with day-to-day survival. For them, life is not something to be enjoyed so much as endured.

These are the real habits of the poor, those with whom Jesus identifies most closely.
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Old 12-12-2013, 03:31 PM   #76
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It's fun to laugh at him. Everything out of his mouth is "racist!!!" and he cant explain any of his views. Which is how he earned the handle RaceCardRetard.
Don't forgot, I rarely if ever respond to him but I get called "bitch" which he uses as a sexist slur. Yet, he's the first to run to mod for a racist slur.

Whatta cry baby.
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Old 12-12-2013, 03:33 PM   #77
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Baiting again tattooed tough guy from Eastwood
What part of that is baiting dipshit?
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Old 12-12-2013, 03:34 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Don't forgot, I rarely if ever respond to him but I get called "bitch" which he uses as a sexist slur. Yet, he's the first to run to mod for a racist slur.

Whatta cry baby.
Calling you a bitch isn't sexist.
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Old 12-12-2013, 03:36 PM   #79
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When i think of the working poor, i think of people who are getting by but aren't living in the best neighborhoods or driving the best cars, but rather "good enough".
You think of such people as working poor? Really? That used to be the working class bordering on middle class. I guess times have changed.
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Old 12-12-2013, 03:36 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by Race Card native View Post
Calling you a bitch isn't sexist.
Is calling you Speedy racist?
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Old 12-12-2013, 03:39 PM   #81
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Is calling you Speedy racist?
Yes. We've covered this before. Several other posters have shown you how you are misguided on this and I have no intention of rehashing it with you dildo.
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Old 12-12-2013, 03:41 PM   #82
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Yes. We've covered this before. Several other posters have shown you how you are misguided on this and I have no intention of rehashing it with you dildo.
Actually, no one has that I can recall, so it must not have been a very compelling discussion.

Me calling you Speedy is no more racist than you calling me Limey or Snaggletooth.
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Old 12-12-2013, 03:46 PM   #83
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You think of such people as working poor? Really? That used to be the working class bordering on middle class. I guess times have changed.
Like i said, it's such a broad spectrum.

To me, Middle Class is someone who can afford to purchase a home or has equity.

Working poor is that woman working full time to pay for her crumby apartment to support her kid, living paycheck to paycheck with no equity.
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Old 12-12-2013, 03:50 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Don't forgot, I rarely if ever respond to him but I get called "bitch" which he uses as a sexist slur. Yet, he's the first to run to mod for a racist slur.

Whatta cry baby.
He actually believes people care about his opinions, it's quite hilarious. He's like the stumbling drunk at closing time screaming wildly at everyone while the other patrons just stare in amusement at the tool.
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Old 12-12-2013, 04:01 PM   #85
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He actually believes people care about his opinions, it's quite hilarious. He's like the stumbling drunk at closing time screaming wildly at everyone while the other patrons just stare in amusement at the tool.
...and he does use his own slurs.
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Old 12-12-2013, 04:04 PM   #86
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It could be living outside your means. It would depend on your income and situation though. There's a pretty broad spectrum here. When i think of the working poor, i think of people who are getting by but aren't living in the best neighborhoods or driving the best cars, but rather "good enough". They make enough to maintain a decent life style but certainly not an excessive one.

When i think of people who live outside their means i think of people like my uncle, who would ultimately be classified as middle class. He scrapes by and usually doesn't have much excess money...but at the same time...he owns a house and spends money on stupid shit like ATV's and Dirtbikes and truck accessories.

I agree with your second paragraph though, 100%.
I don't think we are that far apart. It sounds as though your uncle falls into the living out side of his means...the $40,000 millionaire syndrome. I am speaking of those who have modest houses and modest vehicles. The guy who pulls a double shift because it gets him a little breathing room and sells his vacation back to the company or saves it in case. These people fall into the working poor also IMO~
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Old 12-12-2013, 04:10 PM   #87
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What part of that is baiting dipshit?
Uh...he did not call you a name but he could have I will call you a name, you're a weak dick troll. To use your lame ass style "Weak dick troll is a weak dick troll"
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Old 12-12-2013, 04:14 PM   #88
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It's hard to get a clear understanding of what poor is and have a decent conversation about government programs and who and why they're on the government teet. So many generalizations and misguided stereotypes.

Everyone wants to think about nappy-headed Laquanda with her Obamaphone and her 5 hood rat kids and paint that as a portrait of the poor.

And i don't buy this bullshit narrative that life on foodstamps is better than a life with a job. It's bullshit that shows how ignorant people are about the subject.

If you have no desire to do anything but Eat, shit and sleep, then maybe the subsidized life is for you. But this is America. Most of us want nice cars, nice homes, shopping sprees and vacations. No one is getting that by living the subsidized life. Sure, there may be a few who **** the system, but it's not common.

By America's definition im considered "poor". I have some friends on foodstamps and i wouldn't trade my life for theirs.....ever. I might be considered poor, but at least i can take my kid to Disneyland if i feel like it or go buy whatever it is that i may need. I don't consider myself to be poor...probably because i know what the true definition of poor REALLY is.

These people on foodstamps have enough money to feed themselves and watch cable T.V. Everytime one of you dumbass's rambles on about how the Subsidized life is better than working i just wanna smack the shit out of you for being so ****ing retarded. You are seriously stupid. No Joke. Pull your head out of your ass, stop being so bitter and appreciate what you have, which 90% of the time is a much better quality of life than these welfare queens.

I might be "working Poor", but i make enough to take a vacation to Vegas every year...something my welfare friends could only dream about.

Yeah....the subsidized life.....living the American Dream....
This is my thinking in my earlier post. If you can go to Vegas every year and take your kid to Disneyland, you shouldn't be considered poor. You obviously have your basic needs handled and are able to afford some luxuries. Defining poverty in dollars or in percentiles of the population doesn't capture that.
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Old 12-12-2013, 04:16 PM   #89
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This is my thinking in my earlier post. If you can go to Vegas every year and take your kid to Disneyland, you shouldn't be considered poor. You obviously have your basic needs handled and are able to afford some luxuries. Defining poverty in dollars or in percentiles of the population doesn't capture that.
Agreed~
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Old 12-12-2013, 04:43 PM   #90
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Poor america is not poor.

99% of poor america has a refigerator
98% of poor america has TV
98% of poor america has a stove
81% of poor america has a microwave
78% of poor america has AC
71% of poor america has at least one VCR
65% of poor america has more than one TV
65% of poor america has more than one DVD player
64% of poor america has cable/satalite TV

The list goes on. Ironically, the averages are very similar to the average american.

Poor in america would be pretty be rich compared to most other countries and normal living in almost all countries.

The fact is, that being poor is more benefitial than being in the lower middle class. You get less cash, but you bring home much more in subsidies--and you don't pay taxes (other than sales tax etc). And after Obamacare goes in full effect, your are damned if you are in the middle class because you get no assistance. The stigma is powerful though and that's what people shake.
Yes, let us compare us to third world hell holes, and not other developed countries.

conservative logic. At least we always look great. Then we never have to fix anything, cause hell, at least we aren't a third world country, right?
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