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Old 12-12-2013, 12:04 PM  
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Understanding Poverty

20 things the poor deal with daily:

http://benirwin.wordpress.com/2013/1...-do-every-day/

Dave Ramsey probably wasn’t expecting this much pushback when he shared a piece by Tim Corley contrasting the habits of the rich with those of the poor. In her response on CNN, Rachel Held Evans noted that Ramsey and Corley mistake correlation for causality when they suggest (without actually proving) that these habits are the cause of a person’s financial situation. (Did it never occur to them that it might be the other way around?)

Ramsey fired back, calling the pushback “immature and ignorant.” This from a guy who just made 20 sweeping assertions about 47 million poor people in the US — all based on a survey of 361 individuals.

That’s right. To come up with his 20 habits, Corley talked to just 233 wealthy people and 128 poor people. Ramsey can talk all he wants about Corley’s research passing the “common-sense smell test,” but it doesn’t pass the “research methodology 101” test.

To balance the picture a bit, I wanted to take a fact-based look at 20 things the poor do on a daily basis…

1. Search for affordable housing.
Especially in urban areas, the waiting list for affordable housing can be a year or more. During that time, poor families either have to make do with substandard or dangerous housing, depend on the hospitality of relatives, or go homeless.
(Source: New York Times)

2. Try to make $133 worth of food last a whole month.
That’s how much the average food stamp recipient gets each month. Imagine trying to eat well on $4.38 per day. It’s not easy, which is why many impoverished families resort to #3…
(Source: Kaiser Family Foundation)

3. Subsist on poor quality food.
Not because they want to, but because they can’t afford high-quality, nutritious food. They’re trapped in a food system that subsidizes processed foods, making them artificially cheaper than natural food sources. So the poor are forced to eat bad food — if they’re lucky, that is…
(Sources: Washington Post; Journal of Nutrition, March 2008)

4. Skip a meal.
One in six Americans are food insecure. Which means (among other things) that they’re sometimes forced to go without eating.
(Sources: World Vision, US Department of Agriculture)

5. Work longer and harder than most of us.
While it’s popular to think people are poor because they’re lazy (which seems to be the whole point of Ramsey’s post), the poor actually work longer and harder than the rest of us. More than 80 percent of impoverished children have at least one parent who works; 60 percent have at least one parent who works full-time. Overall, the poor work longer hours than the so-called “job creators.”
(Source: Poverty and Learning, April 2008)

6. Go to bed 3 hours before their first job starts.
Number 15 on Ramsey and Corley’s list was, “44% of [the] wealthy wake up three hours before work starts vs. 3% of [the] poor.” It may be true that most poor people don’t wake up three hours before work starts. But that could be because they’re more likely to work multiple jobs, in which case job #1 means they’re probably just getting to bed three hours before job #2 starts.
(Source: Poverty and Learning, April 2008)

7. Try to avoid getting beat up by someone they love.
According to some estimates, half of all homeless women in America ran away to escape domestic violence.
(Source: National Coalition for the Homeless, 2009)

8. Put themselves in harm’s way, only to be kicked to the streets afterward.
How else do you explain 67,000 63,000 homeless veterans?
(Source: US Department of Veterans Affairs, updated to reflect the most recent data)

9. Pay more than their fair share of taxes.
Some conservative pundits and politicians like to think the poor don’t pay their fair share, that they are merely “takers.” While it’s true the poor don’t pay as much in federal income tax — usually because they don’t earn enough to qualify — they do pay sales tax, payroll tax, etc. In fact, the bottom 20% of earners pay TWICE as much in taxes (as a share of their income) as do the top 1%.
(Source: Institute on Taxation & Economic Policy, January 2013)

10. Fall further behind.
Even when poverty is the result of poor decision-making, often it’s someone else’s choices that make the difference. If you experience poverty as a child, you are 3-4 times less likely to graduate high school. If you spend your entire childhood in poverty, you are 5 times less likely to graduate. Which means your future has been all but decided for you.
(Sources: World Vision, Children’s Defense Fund, Annie E. Casey Foundation)

11. Raise kids who will be poor.
A child’s future earnings are closely correlated to their parents’ earnings. In other words, economic mobility — the idea that you can claw your way out of poverty if you just try hard enough is, more often than not, a myth.
(Sources: OECD, Economic Policy Institute)

12. Vote less.
And who can blame them? I would be less inclined to vote if I didn’t have easy access to the polls and if I were subjected to draconian voter ID laws that are sold to the public as necessary to suppress nonexistent voter fraud.
(Source: The Center for Voting and Democracy)

13. When they do vote… vote pretty much the same as the rest of us.
Following their defeat in 2012, conservatives took solace by reasoning that they’d lost to a bunch of “takers,” including the poor, who voted for Democrats because they want free handouts from big government. The reality is a bit more complex. Only a third of low-income voters identify as Democrats, about the same for all Americans, including wealthy voters.
(Sources: NPR, Pew Research Center)

14. Live with chronic pain.
Those earning less than $12,000 a year are twice as likely to report feeling physical pain on any given day.
(Source: Kaiser Health News)

15. Live shorter lives.
There is a 10-14 year gap in life expectancy between the rich and the poor. In recent years, poor people’s life expectancy has actually declined — in America, the wealthiest nation on the planet.
(Source: Health Affairs, 2012)

16. Use drugs and alcohol pretty much the same as (or less than) everyone else.
Despite the common picture of inner city crack houses, drug use is pretty evenly spread across income groups. And rich people actually abuse alcohol more than the poor.
(Source: Poverty and Learning, April 2008)

17. Receive less in subsidized benefits than corporations.
The US government spends around $60 billion on public housing and rental subsidies for low-income families, compared to more than $90 billion on corporate subsidies. Oil companies alone get around $70 billion. And that’s not counting the nearly $60 billion a year in tax breaks corporations enjoy by sheltering profits offshore. Or the $700 billion bailout banks got in 2008.
(Source: Think By Numbers)

18. Get themselves off welfare as soon as possible.
Despite the odds, the vast majority of beneficiaries leave the welfare rolls within five years. Even in the absence of official welfare-to-work programming, most welfare recipients enroll in some form of vocational training. Why? Because they’re desperate to get off welfare.
(Source: US Department of Health and Human Services)

19. Have about the same number of children as everyone else.
No, poor people do not have loads of children just so they can stay on welfare.
(Source: US Department of Health and Human Services)

20. Accomplish one single goal: stay alive.
Poverty in America may not be as dire as poverty in other parts of the world, but many working poor families are nonetheless preoccupied with day-to-day survival. For them, life is not something to be enjoyed so much as endured.

These are the real habits of the poor, those with whom Jesus identifies most closely.
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Old 12-12-2013, 05:46 PM   #91
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This is my thinking in my earlier post. If you can go to Vegas every year and take your kid to Disneyland, you shouldn't be considered poor. You obviously have your basic needs handled and are able to afford some luxuries. Defining poverty in dollars or in percentiles of the population doesn't capture that.
Yeah, i agree. Like i said, i don't feel like im poor, but America does.
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Old 12-12-2013, 06:02 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
Yes, let us compare us to third world hell holes, and not other developed countries.
Nope. We have been one of the richest out of the developed countries too.
That is until recent years.

You want us to be compared to other socialist countries who do not enjoy many freedoms we have. Oops I mean had.

You've never been out of the country have you?


Quote:
conservative logic. At least we always look great. Then we never have to fix anything, cause hell, at least we aren't a third world country, right?
Well, then how about comparing us against Hong Kong?

It's pulled ahead of us under Obama. Our lost decade.
http://www.nationalreview.com/agenda...s-reihan-salam
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Old 12-12-2013, 06:08 PM   #93
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Comparing the US to other developed countries which usually means Europe.
Based on OECD numbers.

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Old 12-12-2013, 07:15 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
Yes, let us compare us to third world hell holes, and not other developed countries.

conservative logic. At least we always look great. Then we never have to fix anything, cause hell, at least we aren't a third world country, right?
I believe the WSJ did a story about if Germany was a US State, it'd be tied with Arkansas or Alabama or somewhere at #46 in per capita GDP
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Old 12-13-2013, 09:27 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
Yes, let us compare us to third world hell holes, and not other developed countries.

conservative logic. At least we always look great. Then we never have to fix anything, cause hell, at least we aren't a third world country, right?
So what would you suggest as a course of action to raise the standard of Living of the Poor? Or would you just be happy if the Wealthy were no longer wealthy and thus the gap was eliminated?
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Old 12-13-2013, 09:31 AM   #96
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Uh...he did not call you a name but he could have I will call you a name, you're a weak dick troll. To use your lame ass style "Weak dick troll is a weak dick troll"
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Old 12-13-2013, 09:38 AM   #97
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Excellent OP.

Too few people who are not in poverty do understand it, unfortunately. The age of the Internet should honestly have brought us closer together, but I think what it's done has effectively isolated us from the plight of the impoverished.

We need to embrace policy on compassion and mercy for the poor.
Go volunteer.
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Old 12-13-2013, 09:42 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
Yes, let us compare us to third world hell holes, and not other developed countries.

conservative logic. At least we always look great. Then we never have to fix anything, cause hell, at least we aren't a third world country, right?
Loneiguana logic- The bottom will never have as much as the top, therefore the system will always be broken.
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Old 12-13-2013, 09:44 AM   #99
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I don't find the argument that the poor are doing well compared to Uganda's poor terribly compelling.If you're struggling for healthcare, education, and housing, then your ability to get ahead in life is severely hampered.

Society has a responsibility to help these people. Particularly the working poor, who always seem to be forgotten when we talk about those lazy goodfernothings in the lowest economic quintile.
Of course not. You're counting on difference in wealth among Americans to be a permanent talking point. It can never be even across the board, so it will never be fixed, and so you can always sell it.
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Old 12-13-2013, 09:58 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Nope. We have been one of the richest out of the developed countries too.
That is until recent years.

You want us to be compared to other socialist countries who do not enjoy many freedoms we have. Oops I mean had.

You've never been out of the country have you?
. This isn't about "Richness" stupid. This is about whether the poor are better off than other developed countries. They aren't.

Wrong Again. As always.

U.S. poverty rates higher, safety net weaker than in peer countries


Relative poverty rate in the United States and selected OECD countries, late 2000s


Child poverty rate in selected developed countries, 2009


Extent to which taxes and transfer programs reduce the relative poverty rate, selected OECD countries, late 2000s

Social expenditure and relative poverty rates in selected OECD countries, late 2000s


http://www.epi.org/publication/ib339...ty-net-weaker/


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Old 12-13-2013, 09:59 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Comparing the US to other developed countries which usually means Europe.
Based on OECD numbers.
This is about poverty and the poor, stupid. Which this chart doesn't address.

Post like this is why I call you stupid.
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Old 12-13-2013, 10:01 AM   #102
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So what would you suggest as a course of action to raise the standard of Living of the Poor? Or would you just be happy if the Wealthy were no longer wealthy and thus the gap was eliminated?
It's almost like you idiots have no idea what the income inequality gap was like in 50's and 60's.

I got news for you. It was vastly smaller than now and guess what... there were still rich people!!! GASP
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Old 12-13-2013, 10:02 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by blaise View Post
Of course not. You're counting on difference in wealth among Americans to be a permanent talking point. It can never be even across the board, so it will never be fixed, and so you can always sell it.
Remember kids, if you can't completely fix it, don't try improving it.
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Old 12-13-2013, 10:21 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
It's almost like you idiots have no idea what the income inequality gap was like in 50's and 60's.

I got news for you. It was vastly smaller than now and guess what... there were still rich people!!! GASP

We have way more rich people now and it is much easier to become wealthy when you get to keep more of your Money than the Government takes.

In 1960 after your first $36,000 Uncle Same got a bigger cut than you did off your income. It hit 91% after $400,000. Hell it was 20% on dollar 1. The Federal Tax burden on all levels of income are much lower now.
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Old 12-13-2013, 10:25 AM   #105
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Let's have everyone meet in the middle of the country and give up all your money and put it in a big 'ol pile.

Then we divide it up and dole it out to everyone, problem solved.
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