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Old 12-12-2013, 11:04 AM  
gblowfish gblowfish is offline
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Understanding Poverty

20 things the poor deal with daily:

http://benirwin.wordpress.com/2013/1...-do-every-day/

Dave Ramsey probably wasn’t expecting this much pushback when he shared a piece by Tim Corley contrasting the habits of the rich with those of the poor. In her response on CNN, Rachel Held Evans noted that Ramsey and Corley mistake correlation for causality when they suggest (without actually proving) that these habits are the cause of a person’s financial situation. (Did it never occur to them that it might be the other way around?)

Ramsey fired back, calling the pushback “immature and ignorant.” This from a guy who just made 20 sweeping assertions about 47 million poor people in the US — all based on a survey of 361 individuals.

That’s right. To come up with his 20 habits, Corley talked to just 233 wealthy people and 128 poor people. Ramsey can talk all he wants about Corley’s research passing the “common-sense smell test,” but it doesn’t pass the “research methodology 101” test.

To balance the picture a bit, I wanted to take a fact-based look at 20 things the poor do on a daily basis…

1. Search for affordable housing.
Especially in urban areas, the waiting list for affordable housing can be a year or more. During that time, poor families either have to make do with substandard or dangerous housing, depend on the hospitality of relatives, or go homeless.
(Source: New York Times)

2. Try to make $133 worth of food last a whole month.
That’s how much the average food stamp recipient gets each month. Imagine trying to eat well on $4.38 per day. It’s not easy, which is why many impoverished families resort to #3…
(Source: Kaiser Family Foundation)

3. Subsist on poor quality food.
Not because they want to, but because they can’t afford high-quality, nutritious food. They’re trapped in a food system that subsidizes processed foods, making them artificially cheaper than natural food sources. So the poor are forced to eat bad food — if they’re lucky, that is…
(Sources: Washington Post; Journal of Nutrition, March 2008)

4. Skip a meal.
One in six Americans are food insecure. Which means (among other things) that they’re sometimes forced to go without eating.
(Sources: World Vision, US Department of Agriculture)

5. Work longer and harder than most of us.
While it’s popular to think people are poor because they’re lazy (which seems to be the whole point of Ramsey’s post), the poor actually work longer and harder than the rest of us. More than 80 percent of impoverished children have at least one parent who works; 60 percent have at least one parent who works full-time. Overall, the poor work longer hours than the so-called “job creators.”
(Source: Poverty and Learning, April 2008)

6. Go to bed 3 hours before their first job starts.
Number 15 on Ramsey and Corley’s list was, “44% of [the] wealthy wake up three hours before work starts vs. 3% of [the] poor.” It may be true that most poor people don’t wake up three hours before work starts. But that could be because they’re more likely to work multiple jobs, in which case job #1 means they’re probably just getting to bed three hours before job #2 starts.
(Source: Poverty and Learning, April 2008)

7. Try to avoid getting beat up by someone they love.
According to some estimates, half of all homeless women in America ran away to escape domestic violence.
(Source: National Coalition for the Homeless, 2009)

8. Put themselves in harm’s way, only to be kicked to the streets afterward.
How else do you explain 67,000 63,000 homeless veterans?
(Source: US Department of Veterans Affairs, updated to reflect the most recent data)

9. Pay more than their fair share of taxes.
Some conservative pundits and politicians like to think the poor don’t pay their fair share, that they are merely “takers.” While it’s true the poor don’t pay as much in federal income tax — usually because they don’t earn enough to qualify — they do pay sales tax, payroll tax, etc. In fact, the bottom 20% of earners pay TWICE as much in taxes (as a share of their income) as do the top 1%.
(Source: Institute on Taxation & Economic Policy, January 2013)

10. Fall further behind.
Even when poverty is the result of poor decision-making, often it’s someone else’s choices that make the difference. If you experience poverty as a child, you are 3-4 times less likely to graduate high school. If you spend your entire childhood in poverty, you are 5 times less likely to graduate. Which means your future has been all but decided for you.
(Sources: World Vision, Children’s Defense Fund, Annie E. Casey Foundation)

11. Raise kids who will be poor.
A child’s future earnings are closely correlated to their parents’ earnings. In other words, economic mobility — the idea that you can claw your way out of poverty if you just try hard enough is, more often than not, a myth.
(Sources: OECD, Economic Policy Institute)

12. Vote less.
And who can blame them? I would be less inclined to vote if I didn’t have easy access to the polls and if I were subjected to draconian voter ID laws that are sold to the public as necessary to suppress nonexistent voter fraud.
(Source: The Center for Voting and Democracy)

13. When they do vote… vote pretty much the same as the rest of us.
Following their defeat in 2012, conservatives took solace by reasoning that they’d lost to a bunch of “takers,” including the poor, who voted for Democrats because they want free handouts from big government. The reality is a bit more complex. Only a third of low-income voters identify as Democrats, about the same for all Americans, including wealthy voters.
(Sources: NPR, Pew Research Center)

14. Live with chronic pain.
Those earning less than $12,000 a year are twice as likely to report feeling physical pain on any given day.
(Source: Kaiser Health News)

15. Live shorter lives.
There is a 10-14 year gap in life expectancy between the rich and the poor. In recent years, poor people’s life expectancy has actually declined — in America, the wealthiest nation on the planet.
(Source: Health Affairs, 2012)

16. Use drugs and alcohol pretty much the same as (or less than) everyone else.
Despite the common picture of inner city crack houses, drug use is pretty evenly spread across income groups. And rich people actually abuse alcohol more than the poor.
(Source: Poverty and Learning, April 2008)

17. Receive less in subsidized benefits than corporations.
The US government spends around $60 billion on public housing and rental subsidies for low-income families, compared to more than $90 billion on corporate subsidies. Oil companies alone get around $70 billion. And that’s not counting the nearly $60 billion a year in tax breaks corporations enjoy by sheltering profits offshore. Or the $700 billion bailout banks got in 2008.
(Source: Think By Numbers)

18. Get themselves off welfare as soon as possible.
Despite the odds, the vast majority of beneficiaries leave the welfare rolls within five years. Even in the absence of official welfare-to-work programming, most welfare recipients enroll in some form of vocational training. Why? Because they’re desperate to get off welfare.
(Source: US Department of Health and Human Services)

19. Have about the same number of children as everyone else.
No, poor people do not have loads of children just so they can stay on welfare.
(Source: US Department of Health and Human Services)

20. Accomplish one single goal: stay alive.
Poverty in America may not be as dire as poverty in other parts of the world, but many working poor families are nonetheless preoccupied with day-to-day survival. For them, life is not something to be enjoyed so much as endured.

These are the real habits of the poor, those with whom Jesus identifies most closely.
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Old 12-13-2013, 09:34 AM   #106
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Now if you want to say we have poor people, It sucks to be poor. It costs poor people more money than rich people when they borrow and that life is not fair. All of these are true. If you are looking for a place for Uncle Sam to Throw money at in an attempt to help people to be more upwardly mobile… I would suggest more grants and aid for College tuition and trade schools.
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Old 12-13-2013, 09:42 AM   #107
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I believe the WSJ did a story about if Germany was a US State, it'd be tied with Arkansas or Alabama or somewhere at #46 in per capita GDP
Yeah,and someone took Krugman's claims of life-is-better-over-there ( Europe) and found it was comparable to America's standard of living overall being like one of our worst states standard-of-living-wise, which was Arkansas or Alabama as I recall.
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Old 12-13-2013, 09:44 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by FishingRod View Post
Now if you want to say we have poor people, It sucks to be poor. It costs poor people more money than rich people when they borrow and that life is not fair. All of these are true. If you are looking for a place for Uncle Sam to Throw money at in an attempt to help people to be more upwardly mobile… I would suggest more grants and aid for College tuition and trade schools.
If you are poor, the pell grant generally takes care of tuition with money left over. Federal loans are guaranteed. Seriously, anybody can go to school if they want to.

The problem is in the mindset of the poor. So many rely on luck and so many live check to check. An investment in the future is not even in the vocabulary nor is delayed gratification.

If there's money to be thrown at, that would yield good benefits, it would be teaching to get out of the mindset of being perpetually poor.
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Old 12-13-2013, 09:47 AM   #109
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If you are poor, the pell grant generally takes care of tuition with money left over. Federal loans are guaranteed. Seriously, anybody can go to school if they want to.

The problem is in the mindset of the poor. So many rely on luck and so many live check to check. An investment in the future is not even in the vocabulary nor is delayed gratification.

If there's money to be thrown at, that would yield good benefits, it would be teaching to get out of the mindset of being perpetually poor.
I agree with this.
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Old 12-13-2013, 09:53 AM   #110
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Remember kids, if someone has more than you, you need more.
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Old 12-13-2013, 09:54 AM   #111
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If there's money to be thrown at, that would yield good benefits, it would be teaching to get out of the mindset of being perpetually poor.
Education would be the silver bullet. Teachers should be dipped In gold, making 6 figures and be a highly competitive career. Those are the precious years that kids are learning apathy.
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Old 12-13-2013, 10:01 AM   #112
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Education would be the silver bullet. Teachers should be dipped In gold, making 6 figures and be a highly competitive career. Those are the precious years that kids are learning ambivalence.
I certainly agree with your view on teachers; however, the problem exists that we count on teachers too much. Knowledge is key but I believe the solution is home. When people lean on teachers to teach their kids all that they need to know, they are going to be sorely disappointed. That is the role of the parents.
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Old 12-13-2013, 10:12 AM   #113
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I certainly agree with your view on teachers; however, the problem exists that we count on teachers too much. Knowledge is key but I believe the solution is home. When people lean on teachers to teach their kids all that they need to know, they are going to be sorely disappointed. That is the role of the parents.
I agree that's ideal, but I think there is a compulsion for people to be self destructive. And since we are all dependant on future generations turning into productive people it's just not realistic to think every parent is going to do their part. For any number of a million reasons.

Maybe if we pay them...
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Old 12-13-2013, 10:19 AM   #114
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I agree that's ideal, but I think there is a compulsion for people to be self destructive. And since we are all dependant on future generations turning into productive people it's just not realistic to think every parent is going to do their part. For any number of a million reasons.

Maybe if we pay them...
Absolutely. That is why I propose making it mandatory that when a parent gets assistance that they are made to either perform work or get an education, with the end goal being them being better at the end of assistance.

The problem with it right now is that a person is put on assistance and is left there with no motivation to get off. When a person can be shown that they can make a difference, that they can live the golden dream and they can provide the tools to their children to do the same, then the welfare crisis will be over and the nation as a whole will be better with a much brighter future ahead. As it stands now, when someone is on assistance it becomes the goal to not earn enough money to lose that assistance. In short, it makes the goal staying poor for fear of losing that net.
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Old 12-13-2013, 10:28 AM   #115
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You didn't directly call me a name but used the "Left of Stalin knows what's best for everyone opinion" which is akin to calling someone a name even though you used it as an adjective for what you think my opinion on matters is.
So I didn't even call you a name much less names but what did you do? You called somebody out for being a hateful poster and then went on another one of your long diatribes and got angry for me calling you out on it. Using the expression that you are left of Stalin and think you know what's best for everyone is accurate. Out of the 10,925 posters that reside here who is to the left of you? I don't see anyone but am more than willing to hear your take on it. As far as knowing what is best for everyone every subject I see you posting on you take that side. Vaccines, gun legislation, taxation, wages, poverty. You know what part everyone should play, who should pay, how people should protect themselves and what people should be forced to inject inside of them and their family. You never side with individual choice, freedom or personal responsibility. Sorry if that offends you it's just the way I see it. If you care so much about helping the impoverished then go do something about it instead of bleeding all over the board all day, that's not accomplishing anything.
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Old 12-13-2013, 10:33 AM   #116
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Absolutely. That is why I propose making it mandatory that when a parent gets assistance that they are made to either perform work or get an education, with the end goal being them being better at the end of assistance.

The problem with it right now is that a person is put on assistance and is left there with no motivation to get off. When a person can be shown that they can make a difference, that they can live the golden dream and they can provide the tools to their children to do the same, then the welfare crisis will be over and the nation as a whole will be better with a much brighter future ahead. As it stands now, when someone is on assistance it becomes the goal to not earn enough money to lose that assistance. In short, it makes the goal staying poor for fear of losing that net.
Just the act of having to work or study all day to get your pay has huge benefits. The percentage of people on assistance that just don't want to do anything is very high. Anyone who employs workers at under $20 hr. sees this all the time.
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Old 12-13-2013, 11:30 AM   #117
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We have way more rich people now and it is much easier to become wealthy when you get to keep more of your Money than the Government takes.

In 1960 after your first $36,000 Uncle Same got a bigger cut than you did off your income. It hit 91% after $400,000. Hell it was 20% on dollar 1. The Federal Tax burden on all levels of income are much lower now.
Actually, our economic mobility has gone down since those tax rates.
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Old 12-13-2013, 11:32 AM   #118
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Remember kids, if someone has more than you, you need more.
More deep thoughts from blaise that has nothing to do with anything anyone is talking about.
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Old 12-13-2013, 11:42 AM   #119
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Just the act of having to work or study all day to get your pay has huge benefits. The percentage of people on assistance that just don't want to do anything is very high. Anyone who employs workers at under $20 hr. sees this all the time.
I like the idea of forcing education on people. But then it boils down to who's going to pay for their education? I'm pretty sure Republicans would find a way to bitch about that too. "I don't want my Tax dollars being spent on that blah blah blah". "Why does my kid have to pay for his education and LaShanda gets a free ride just because she's too lazy to work?". You know damn well it'll happen too.

I do like the idea of forcing them to work to maintain benefits but it's not realistic either.

I don't think a "forced to work" program would really work unless that work consisted of community service. There are too many issues that would arise. I can see the headlines now:

"Mother of 3 loses benefits & home after being unable to find a job in struggling economy"

"Elderly loses benefits after being physically unable to work"

Im sure the list can go on and on if you think about it.

I understand that your goal here is to get BonQuisha off the couch and motivated to be a self sustaining adult, but you also have to consider the millions of Americans who are on the program because they legitimately can't get a job.

After all, if they could find a job they wouldn't need the program to begin with.
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Old 12-13-2013, 11:42 AM   #120
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So I didn't even call you a name much less names but what did you do? You called somebody out for being a hateful poster and then went on another one of your long diatribes and got angry for me calling you out on it. Using the expression that you are left of Stalin and think you know what's best for everyone is accurate. Out of the 10,925 posters that reside here who is to the left of you? I don't see anyone but am more than willing to hear your take on it. As far as knowing what is best for everyone every subject I see you posting on you take that side. Vaccines, gun legislation, taxation, wages, poverty. You know what part everyone should play, who should pay, how people should protect themselves and what people should be forced to inject inside of them and their family. You never side with individual choice, freedom or personal responsibility. Sorry if that offends you it's just the way I see it. If you care so much about helping the impoverished then go do something about it instead of bleeding all over the board all day, that's not accomplishing anything.
Yup, your a ****ing dumbass.

Vaccines. Yes, you should vaccinate your child. The science behind vaccines and their effectiveness is strong. The only people who argue otherwise are innumerate luddites.

Gun legislation. I've said multiple times that we don't need additional gun control laws. We do however need to better identify who shouldn't own guns (crazy people).

Taxation. I'm for a progressive income tax. I'm also for a dramatically simplified tax code without many of the deductions and credits that we currently have. A simplified tax code would save billions on tax evasion/avoidance and would allow us to have lower statutory rates. In addition, we should lift the payroll caps on SS/Medicare taxes to make those programs solvent for several decades.

Wages. I've never advocated a wage cap. I do stand for an increase in the minimum wage because it has failed to keep pace with inflation (that doesn't mean I agree with Loneiguana that it should be $15).

So once again, you're wrong on just about everything about me. Try again jackass.
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I'm just a little pussy from Iowa
Posts: 17,500
KC native wants to die in a aids tree fire.KC native wants to die in a aids tree fire.KC native wants to die in a aids tree fire.KC native wants to die in a aids tree fire.KC native wants to die in a aids tree fire.KC native wants to die in a aids tree fire.KC native wants to die in a aids tree fire.KC native wants to die in a aids tree fire.KC native wants to die in a aids tree fire.KC native wants to die in a aids tree fire.KC native wants to die in a aids tree fire.
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