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Old 12-13-2013, 04:44 AM  
jaa1025 jaa1025 is offline
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U.S. judge orders landmark California cross taken down

People wonder why we are going down hill as a country. Some very liberal interpretation of the US constitution here.

U.S. judge orders landmark California cross taken down

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - A massive cross that serves as part of a war memorial on a San Diego hilltop must be dismantled because it has been found to violate a constitutional ban on government endorsement of religion, a federal judge grudgingly ruled on Thursday.

The decision by U.S. District Judge Larry Burns marks the latest development in a long-running legal battle over the 43-foot-tall cross, a local landmark that has stood on top of Mount Soledad since 1954 and is visible for miles.

Burns stayed his order to give the Obama administration and the association that erected the cross, which have fought its removal all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court, a chance to file another appeal. Otherwise, he said, the monument must be taken down within 90 days.

"This is a victory for religious liberty," said Daniel Mach, director of the American Civil Liberties Union's program on freedom of religion and belief who argued the matter for the plaintiffs in a hearing before Burns on Thursday.

"We firmly support the government's efforts to honor the service of those who fought and died for this country, but there are many ways to do that without playing favorites with religion," Mach said.
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The case hinged on whether it is legal for a religious symbol to be prominently displayed on public land and whether the cross violated the U.S. Constitution's requirement on separation of church and state.

The Mount Soledad cross has been the subject of litigation since 1989, when two veterans sued San Diego to get it off city land. In 2006, Congress intervened in the dispute, resulting in the federal government taking ownership of the property.

A group of plaintiffs, including the Jewish War Veterans of the United States of America, then sued. The U.S. Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals court ruled that the dominance of the cross conveyed a message of government endorsement of religion.

The Obama administration and the Mount Soledad Memorial Association, which erected the cross, appealed to the U.S. Supreme Court, supported by 20 U.S. states and various veterans groups in arguing the cross should be allowed as part of the memorial.

In June 2012, the Supreme Court declined to take the case, letting the Ninth Circuit's ruling stand. In ordering that the cross be taken down, Burns said on Thursday he did not agree with the Ninth Circuit's ruling but that his hands were tied.

The cross, located between the Pacific Ocean and a major interstate highway, is surrounded by walls displaying granite plaques that commemorate veterans or veterans groups. Easter services were held annually at the cross from 1954 until at least 2000, according to court documents.

The Mount Soledad Memorial Association, which erected the cross in place of another cross that had stood on that spot since 1913, could not immediately be reached for comment on Thursday's ruling.

Last edited by jaa1025; 12-13-2013 at 04:50 AM..
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Old 12-13-2013, 11:18 AM   #16
Detoxing Detoxing is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katipan View Post
Lol If God can't find the humor in that then he's just not trying hard enough.
If that cross could talk...

Drive up there around 10pm on a friday night and you'll see a parking lot full of cars with foggy windows.
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Old 12-13-2013, 11:23 AM   #17
Dave Lane Dave Lane is offline
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Originally Posted by BIG_DADDY View Post
I get that you are an atheist. What I don't get is why you care and appear to hate Christians year in and year out. Were you molested or something?
Why do you think I "hate" them. I hate what religion does to this country, doesn't mean I hate christians. Its the right thing to do in this case.
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Last edited by Dave Lane; 12-13-2013 at 11:40 AM..
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Old 12-13-2013, 12:04 PM   #18
Dave Lane Dave Lane is offline
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Originally Posted by Detoxing View Post
I've had sex under that cross.

Mt. Soledad is much more of a teenage "make-Out" spot than it is a War memorial or religious icon. It's a classic isolated hill that looks over the city. Kids go there every night to ****, smoke weed and get away from their parents.
Now there is a proper use of the hill.
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Old 12-13-2013, 10:07 PM   #19
jaa1025 jaa1025 is offline
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Originally Posted by Dave Lane View Post
Why do you think I "hate" them. I hate what religion does to this country, doesn't mean I hate christians. Its the right thing to do in this case.
What does religion do to this country? Please expand? Because historically, people in the name of atheism have been just as cruel, just as murderous etc from a leadership position just as people that have done crimes "in the name of __________"

Your issues are not with religion its people in general. ****ed up people are ****ed up regardless of what they believe in or don't believe in.
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Old 12-13-2013, 10:28 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Dave Lane View Post
...I hate what religion does to this country...
I know. And I wish like hell you and your brothers would stop practicing it.
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Old 12-13-2013, 10:47 PM   #21
J Diddy J Diddy is offline
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I think in this situation I would be curious as to who is buried in this cemetery.
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Old 12-14-2013, 07:41 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by BIG_DADDY View Post
I get that I am an conservative / libertarian. What I don't get is why I care and appear to hate Liberals year in and year out. Was I molested or something?
FYP just so maybe you can understand how dumb this is.
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Old 12-14-2013, 07:43 AM   #23
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I know. And I wish like hell you and your brothers would stop practicing it.
Sweet so you are the biggest Obama supporter in DC. Figures.
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Old 12-14-2013, 07:52 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Lane View Post
Now there is a proper use of the hill.
They are practicing how to make babies.


God thinks this is a good thing.
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Old 12-14-2013, 08:22 AM   #25
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I think in this situation I would be curious as to who is buried in this cemetery.
Its not a cemetery, it is just a mountain top and IMHO an historical landmark though it is not designated as such. I thought the land was transferred / sold to a private group who then dedicated it as a memorial. They started erecting walls and selling engraved granite plaques to put on the wall. For a fee you can have your loved one memorialized. There are several famous folks up there on the walls. It is mostly military but there are several who never served as well.
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Old 12-14-2013, 12:49 PM   #26
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I have a very large variety of belief systems amongst my friends and family. Social, religious, political.
But I asked why regarding my copyright request?
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Old 12-14-2013, 04:38 PM   #27
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"This is a victory for religious liberty," said Daniel Mach, director of the American Civil Liberties Union's program on freedom of religion and belief who argued the matter for the plaintiffs in a hearing before Burns on Thursday."


Goodthink.
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Old 12-14-2013, 04:51 PM   #28
Aries Walker Aries Walker is offline
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It promotes one religion over others, and it's on federal government property. It violates separation of church and state, and it can't do that. Either move it, take it down, or (what I think is best) sell the land to someone else.

Separation of church and state is good. It is wise. It has served us well. It sucks when it's your religion that's being told they can't do something, but it's really better that way for everyone.
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Old 12-14-2013, 05:30 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
But I asked why regarding my copyright request?
I don't understand what you mean.
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Old 12-14-2013, 05:35 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Aries Walker View Post
It promotes one religion over others, and it's on federal government property. It violates separation of church and state, and it can't do that. Either move it, take it down, or (what I think is best) sell the land to someone else.

Separation of church and state is good. It is wise. It has served us well. It sucks when it's your religion that's being told they can't do something, but it's really better that way for everyone.
THIS
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