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Old 12-13-2013, 05:44 AM  
jaa1025 jaa1025 is offline
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U.S. judge orders landmark California cross taken down

People wonder why we are going down hill as a country. Some very liberal interpretation of the US constitution here.

U.S. judge orders landmark California cross taken down

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - A massive cross that serves as part of a war memorial on a San Diego hilltop must be dismantled because it has been found to violate a constitutional ban on government endorsement of religion, a federal judge grudgingly ruled on Thursday.

The decision by U.S. District Judge Larry Burns marks the latest development in a long-running legal battle over the 43-foot-tall cross, a local landmark that has stood on top of Mount Soledad since 1954 and is visible for miles.

Burns stayed his order to give the Obama administration and the association that erected the cross, which have fought its removal all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court, a chance to file another appeal. Otherwise, he said, the monument must be taken down within 90 days.

"This is a victory for religious liberty," said Daniel Mach, director of the American Civil Liberties Union's program on freedom of religion and belief who argued the matter for the plaintiffs in a hearing before Burns on Thursday.

"We firmly support the government's efforts to honor the service of those who fought and died for this country, but there are many ways to do that without playing favorites with religion," Mach said.
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The case hinged on whether it is legal for a religious symbol to be prominently displayed on public land and whether the cross violated the U.S. Constitution's requirement on separation of church and state.

The Mount Soledad cross has been the subject of litigation since 1989, when two veterans sued San Diego to get it off city land. In 2006, Congress intervened in the dispute, resulting in the federal government taking ownership of the property.

A group of plaintiffs, including the Jewish War Veterans of the United States of America, then sued. The U.S. Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals court ruled that the dominance of the cross conveyed a message of government endorsement of religion.

The Obama administration and the Mount Soledad Memorial Association, which erected the cross, appealed to the U.S. Supreme Court, supported by 20 U.S. states and various veterans groups in arguing the cross should be allowed as part of the memorial.

In June 2012, the Supreme Court declined to take the case, letting the Ninth Circuit's ruling stand. In ordering that the cross be taken down, Burns said on Thursday he did not agree with the Ninth Circuit's ruling but that his hands were tied.

The cross, located between the Pacific Ocean and a major interstate highway, is surrounded by walls displaying granite plaques that commemorate veterans or veterans groups. Easter services were held annually at the cross from 1954 until at least 2000, according to court documents.

The Mount Soledad Memorial Association, which erected the cross in place of another cross that had stood on that spot since 1913, could not immediately be reached for comment on Thursday's ruling.

Last edited by jaa1025; 12-13-2013 at 05:50 AM..
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Old 12-14-2013, 06:39 PM   #31
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What does religion do to this country? Please expand? Because historically, people in the name of atheism have been just as cruel, just as murderous etc from a leadership position just as people that have done crimes "in the name of __________"
Yeah, for all of Americas dirty deeds, we've never lined up 300 afghans and ran them over with tanks the way the Godless Russians did...

We've also never murdered our dissidents wholesale like the Chinese either...

Why? i believe it has something to do with our many God based values.
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Old 12-14-2013, 06:49 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scott free View Post
Yeah, for all of Americas dirty deeds, we've never lined up 300 afghans and ran them over with tanks the way the Godless Russians did...

We've also never murdered our dissidents wholesale like the Chinese either...

Why? i believe it has something to do with our many God based values.
I think it has a lot more to do with our people based laws.
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Old 12-14-2013, 06:54 PM   #33
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I think it has a lot more to do with our people based laws.
That too, absolutely... but there is a very strong Christian underpinning to this country, i'm sure you know that.
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Old 12-14-2013, 06:57 PM   #34
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Yeah, for all of Americas dirty deeds, we've never lined up 300 afghans and ran them over with tanks the way the Godless Russians did...
Someone hasn't read the history of how we "tamed" the American west.
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Old 12-14-2013, 07:07 PM   #35
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That too, absolutely... but there is a very strong Christian underpinning to this country, i'm sure you know that.
Not in its laws, no.
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Old 12-14-2013, 07:12 PM   #36
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Someone hasn't read the history of how we "tamed" the American west.
Uhhh yeah, i should've added an asterisk denoting "modern day atrocities"

Theres no denying our inhumane and murderous tactics in pursuit of Manifest Destiny... point taken.
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Old 12-14-2013, 07:14 PM   #37
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Uhhh yeah, i should've added an asterisk denoting "modern day atrocities"

Theres no denying our inhumane and murderous tactics in pursuit of Manifest Destiny... point taken.
At least we didn't kill all of the people we put in concentration camps during World War II. We have that going for us, I guess.
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Old 12-14-2013, 07:20 PM   #38
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Not sure whose values include dropping nuclear bombs but it's probably not God's.
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Old 12-14-2013, 07:22 PM   #39
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At least we didn't kill all of the people we put in concentration camps during World War II. We have that going for us, I guess.
Dirty, bigoted business to be sure... but yeah, we didn't decide to just murder them like other Godless countries would have.

Atleast they were eventually allowed to resume their lives, and eventually their sons war efforts were recognized, though that doesn't altogether make up for the bigotry... i didn't say America was perfect.
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Old 12-14-2013, 07:23 PM   #40
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Not sure whose values include dropping nuclear bombs but it's probably not God's.
Then YOU invade fanatical, mainland Japan.
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Old 12-14-2013, 07:24 PM   #41
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Dirty, bigoted business to be sure... but yeah, we didn't decide to just murder them like other Godless countries would have.

At least they were eventually allowed to resume their lives, and eventually their sons war efforts were recognized, though that doesn't altogether make up for the bigotry... i didn't America was perfect.
Nazi Germany wasn't a godless country.
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Old 12-14-2013, 07:24 PM   #42
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Well, storming mainland Japan wasn't exactly a winning prospect, either.

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Then YOU invade fanatical, mainland Japan.
Blast! Too slow.
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Old 12-14-2013, 07:26 PM   #43
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Nazi Germany wasn't a godless country.
Its people sure weren't. The jury is still out on Adolf.
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Old 12-14-2013, 07:26 PM   #44
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Then YOU invade fanatical, mainland Japan.
Ok but I'll be using my values, I'm sure God doesn't want any part of it.
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Old 12-14-2013, 07:28 PM   #45
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I'm curious: How did God feel about the invasion of Normandy? In your book.
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