Home Mail MemberMap Chat (0) Wallpapers
Go Back   ChiefsPlanet > The Ed & Dave Lounge > D.C.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-13-2013, 04:44 AM  
jaa1025 jaa1025 is offline
Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Casino cash: $5560
U.S. judge orders landmark California cross taken down

People wonder why we are going down hill as a country. Some very liberal interpretation of the US constitution here.

U.S. judge orders landmark California cross taken down

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - A massive cross that serves as part of a war memorial on a San Diego hilltop must be dismantled because it has been found to violate a constitutional ban on government endorsement of religion, a federal judge grudgingly ruled on Thursday.

The decision by U.S. District Judge Larry Burns marks the latest development in a long-running legal battle over the 43-foot-tall cross, a local landmark that has stood on top of Mount Soledad since 1954 and is visible for miles.

Burns stayed his order to give the Obama administration and the association that erected the cross, which have fought its removal all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court, a chance to file another appeal. Otherwise, he said, the monument must be taken down within 90 days.

"This is a victory for religious liberty," said Daniel Mach, director of the American Civil Liberties Union's program on freedom of religion and belief who argued the matter for the plaintiffs in a hearing before Burns on Thursday.

"We firmly support the government's efforts to honor the service of those who fought and died for this country, but there are many ways to do that without playing favorites with religion," Mach said.
View gallery
Atheist advertising
In this Sept. 9, 2010 photo, a billboard erected by atheists in Oklahoma City reads " Don't believe

The case hinged on whether it is legal for a religious symbol to be prominently displayed on public land and whether the cross violated the U.S. Constitution's requirement on separation of church and state.

The Mount Soledad cross has been the subject of litigation since 1989, when two veterans sued San Diego to get it off city land. In 2006, Congress intervened in the dispute, resulting in the federal government taking ownership of the property.

A group of plaintiffs, including the Jewish War Veterans of the United States of America, then sued. The U.S. Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals court ruled that the dominance of the cross conveyed a message of government endorsement of religion.

The Obama administration and the Mount Soledad Memorial Association, which erected the cross, appealed to the U.S. Supreme Court, supported by 20 U.S. states and various veterans groups in arguing the cross should be allowed as part of the memorial.

In June 2012, the Supreme Court declined to take the case, letting the Ninth Circuit's ruling stand. In ordering that the cross be taken down, Burns said on Thursday he did not agree with the Ninth Circuit's ruling but that his hands were tied.

The cross, located between the Pacific Ocean and a major interstate highway, is surrounded by walls displaying granite plaques that commemorate veterans or veterans groups. Easter services were held annually at the cross from 1954 until at least 2000, according to court documents.

The Mount Soledad Memorial Association, which erected the cross in place of another cross that had stood on that spot since 1913, could not immediately be reached for comment on Thursday's ruling.

Last edited by jaa1025; 12-13-2013 at 04:50 AM..
Posts: 619
jaa1025 must have mowed badgirl's lawn.jaa1025 must have mowed badgirl's lawn.jaa1025 must have mowed badgirl's lawn.jaa1025 must have mowed badgirl's lawn.jaa1025 must have mowed badgirl's lawn.jaa1025 must have mowed badgirl's lawn.jaa1025 must have mowed badgirl's lawn.jaa1025 must have mowed badgirl's lawn.jaa1025 must have mowed badgirl's lawn.jaa1025 must have mowed badgirl's lawn.jaa1025 must have mowed badgirl's lawn.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2013, 01:11 AM   #76
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is offline
Debunking your bullshit
 
cosmo20002's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: KC area
Casino cash: $8581
Quote:
Originally Posted by BossChief View Post
I don't get it.

They are removing a cross from a war memorial because the country doesn't endorse any certain religion...but our currency all says

"In God We Trust"

Inconsistent, at best.
One could make an arugment about the "In God We Trust" on currency, but at least that is largely religion-neutral. "God" applies to many, many religions.
But a cross is obviously a Christian symbol.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris616 View Post
As long as Jesus Christ was the president of the US and approved of it Yes.
Posts: 18,333
cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2013, 01:14 AM   #77
Rain Man Rain Man is offline
No known superpowers
 
Rain Man's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: In A World Few See
Casino cash: $12666
VARSITY
I don't really understand why someone wants to build a big cross in the first place. It seems kind of egotistical. You're either doing it to boast that you're a good Christian, or you're doing it to force other people to look at something just because you like looking at it. It's not like it's going to convert anybody.

There's some OCD guy in my neighborhood who's always putting dumb religious signs on telephone poles. The guy is seriously mentally ill or something, because he's probably put up 1,000 or more signs in the 15+ years that I've lived here. People take them down as fast as he puts them up, but they usually survive a day or so. I figure that he does it so he can convince himself that he's a good Christian, but the bottom line is that he's hurting his religion. He comes across as a crazy person, and even if he didn't, seeing "Repent or Burn in Hell" written on an envelope that's stapled to a telephone poll isn't going to change anybody's belief system. If he really wanted to convert people he should be preaching in China or India or Iran.
__________________
Welcome to NFL Sunday! At 11:00 see Peyton Manning flip off the top rope and clothesline Clay Matthews! At 2:00 Drew Brees will hit Terrell Suggs with a chair! Buy your Andrew Luck jersey and let's get reeeeeady to rummmmmble!
Posts: 76,661
Rain Man is obviously part of the inner Circle.Rain Man is obviously part of the inner Circle.Rain Man is obviously part of the inner Circle.Rain Man is obviously part of the inner Circle.Rain Man is obviously part of the inner Circle.Rain Man is obviously part of the inner Circle.Rain Man is obviously part of the inner Circle.Rain Man is obviously part of the inner Circle.Rain Man is obviously part of the inner Circle.Rain Man is obviously part of the inner Circle.Rain Man is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2013, 09:04 AM   #78
Fish Fish is online now
Missing Dick Curl
 
Fish's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2005
Casino cash: $6760
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rain Man View Post
I don't really understand why someone wants to build a big cross in the first place. It seems kind of egotistical. You're either doing it to boast that you're a good Christian, or you're doing it to force other people to look at something just because you like looking at it. It's not like it's going to convert anybody.

There's some OCD guy in my neighborhood who's always putting dumb religious signs on telephone poles. The guy is seriously mentally ill or something, because he's probably put up 1,000 or more signs in the 15+ years that I've lived here. People take them down as fast as he puts them up, but they usually survive a day or so. I figure that he does it so he can convince himself that he's a good Christian, but the bottom line is that he's hurting his religion. He comes across as a crazy person, and even if he didn't, seeing "Repent or Burn in Hell" written on an envelope that's stapled to a telephone poll isn't going to change anybody's belief system. If he really wanted to convert people he should be preaching in China or India or Iran.
What's the big deal?

Accept my belief system, or else my belief system will torture you for eternity.

How can that not work?
__________________
Posts: 25,795
Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2013, 09:05 AM   #79
Bump Bump is offline
DMVP
 
Bump's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2007
Casino cash: $5000
Quote:
Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
I'm sure it will be on my FaceBook feed.
Like if you love God
comment if you love Jesus
Ignore if you love Satan
Posts: 11,752
Bump has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.Bump has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.Bump has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.Bump has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.Bump has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.Bump has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.Bump has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.Bump has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.Bump has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.Bump has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.Bump has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2013, 09:23 AM   #80
Sorter Sorter is offline
Caralho
 
Sorter's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Belo Horizante
Casino cash: $6092
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bump View Post
Like if you love God
comment if you love Jesus
Ignore if you love Satan
I am surprised by the lack of a Holy Spirit option.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavericks Ace View Post
I have completely given up on Alex Smith as a qb. Its painful to watch. Like, worse than watching Colt McCoy.
Posts: 15,173
Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2013, 09:24 AM   #81
Sorter Sorter is offline
Caralho
 
Sorter's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Belo Horizante
Casino cash: $6092
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish View Post
What's the big deal?

Accept my belief system, or else my belief system will torture you for eternity.

How can that not work?
Jehovah Witnesses, this is why you fail.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavericks Ace View Post
I have completely given up on Alex Smith as a qb. Its painful to watch. Like, worse than watching Colt McCoy.
Posts: 15,173
Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.Sorter is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2013, 09:39 AM   #82
Hobophobic Hobophobic is offline
Banned
 
Hobophobic's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2013
Casino cash: $5000
Quote:
Originally Posted by BossChief View Post
I don't get it.

They are removing a cross from a war memorial because the country doesn't endorse any certain religion...but our currency all says

"In God We Trust"

Inconsistent, at best.
The Atheists will get around to that one eventually. It's non-denominational, and their priority right now is attacking Christianity. It'll be interesting if they ever decide to take on Muslims. I don't think Atheists have enough sack to go after Islam.
I wish someone would try to get rid of the "All seeing Eye". Now that's offensive.
Posts: 25
Hobophobic < CasselHobophobic < CasselHobophobic < CasselHobophobic < CasselHobophobic < CasselHobophobic < CasselHobophobic < CasselHobophobic < Cassel
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2013, 09:50 AM   #83
KC native KC native is offline
a toda madre o un desmadre
 
KC native's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Casino cash: $8106
Quote:
Originally Posted by BossChief View Post
I don't get it.

They are removing a cross from a war memorial because the country doesn't endorse any certain religion...but our currency all says

"In God We Trust"

Inconsistent, at best.
That shouldn't be on our currency either. Read up on the history on how/why it was added.
__________________
The diameter of your knowledge is the circumference of your actions. Ras Kass

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iowanian View Post
I'm just a little pussy from Iowa
Posts: 17,653
KC native wants to die in a aids tree fire.KC native wants to die in a aids tree fire.KC native wants to die in a aids tree fire.KC native wants to die in a aids tree fire.KC native wants to die in a aids tree fire.KC native wants to die in a aids tree fire.KC native wants to die in a aids tree fire.KC native wants to die in a aids tree fire.KC native wants to die in a aids tree fire.KC native wants to die in a aids tree fire.KC native wants to die in a aids tree fire.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2013, 11:53 AM   #84
lawrenceRaider lawrenceRaider is offline
Laughing at the FUD
 
lawrenceRaider's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2002
Location: Arlington, TX
Casino cash: $5359
There is not a single mention in the constitution that says anything about separation of church and state. It doesn't exist. Everyone thinks it does because a judge decided to be an activist and stated that it does. The phrase, "separation of church and state" come from Thomas Jefferson. The constitution does say that there cannot be a state religion. What the constitution actually says: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." Having a cross on public land in no way violates this as Congress has not made a law about it.
Posts: 743
lawrenceRaider is the dumbass Milkman is always talking aboutlawrenceRaider is the dumbass Milkman is always talking aboutlawrenceRaider is the dumbass Milkman is always talking aboutlawrenceRaider is the dumbass Milkman is always talking aboutlawrenceRaider is the dumbass Milkman is always talking aboutlawrenceRaider is the dumbass Milkman is always talking aboutlawrenceRaider is the dumbass Milkman is always talking aboutlawrenceRaider is the dumbass Milkman is always talking aboutlawrenceRaider is the dumbass Milkman is always talking aboutlawrenceRaider is the dumbass Milkman is always talking aboutlawrenceRaider is the dumbass Milkman is always talking about
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2013, 11:54 AM   #85
lawrenceRaider lawrenceRaider is offline
Laughing at the FUD
 
lawrenceRaider's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2002
Location: Arlington, TX
Casino cash: $5359
Quote:
Originally Posted by Race Card native View Post
That shouldn't be on our currency either. Read up on the history on how/why it was added.
It was an anti-commy thing.
Posts: 743
lawrenceRaider is the dumbass Milkman is always talking aboutlawrenceRaider is the dumbass Milkman is always talking aboutlawrenceRaider is the dumbass Milkman is always talking aboutlawrenceRaider is the dumbass Milkman is always talking aboutlawrenceRaider is the dumbass Milkman is always talking aboutlawrenceRaider is the dumbass Milkman is always talking aboutlawrenceRaider is the dumbass Milkman is always talking aboutlawrenceRaider is the dumbass Milkman is always talking aboutlawrenceRaider is the dumbass Milkman is always talking aboutlawrenceRaider is the dumbass Milkman is always talking aboutlawrenceRaider is the dumbass Milkman is always talking about
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2013, 12:07 PM   #86
listopencil listopencil is offline
sic semper tyrannis
 
listopencil's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: In Partibus Infidelium
Casino cash: $7141
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawrenceRaider View Post
There is not a single mention in the constitution that says anything about separation of church and state. It doesn't exist. Everyone thinks it does because a judge decided to be an activist and stated that it does. The phrase, "separation of church and state" come from Thomas Jefferson. The constitution does say that there cannot be a state religion. What the constitution actually says: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." Having a cross on public land in no way violates this as Congress has not made a law about it.
We have laws regarding public land usage. The cross is on public land. Therefore, allowing a display on public land that clearly supports one particular religious belief even violates your own stated understanding of the Constitution.
__________________
"As I walked out the door toward the gate that would lead to my freedom, I knew if I didn't leave my bitterness and hatred behind I'd still be in prison."


Posts: 28,356
listopencil is obviously part of the inner Circle.listopencil is obviously part of the inner Circle.listopencil is obviously part of the inner Circle.listopencil is obviously part of the inner Circle.listopencil is obviously part of the inner Circle.listopencil is obviously part of the inner Circle.listopencil is obviously part of the inner Circle.listopencil is obviously part of the inner Circle.listopencil is obviously part of the inner Circle.listopencil is obviously part of the inner Circle.listopencil is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2013, 12:10 PM   #87
Rain Man Rain Man is offline
No known superpowers
 
Rain Man's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: In A World Few See
Casino cash: $12666
VARSITY
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bump View Post
Like if you love God
comment if you love Jesus
Ignore if you love Satan
Those would be a lot more entertaining if it was "comment if you love Satan".
__________________
Welcome to NFL Sunday! At 11:00 see Peyton Manning flip off the top rope and clothesline Clay Matthews! At 2:00 Drew Brees will hit Terrell Suggs with a chair! Buy your Andrew Luck jersey and let's get reeeeeady to rummmmmble!
Posts: 76,661
Rain Man is obviously part of the inner Circle.Rain Man is obviously part of the inner Circle.Rain Man is obviously part of the inner Circle.Rain Man is obviously part of the inner Circle.Rain Man is obviously part of the inner Circle.Rain Man is obviously part of the inner Circle.Rain Man is obviously part of the inner Circle.Rain Man is obviously part of the inner Circle.Rain Man is obviously part of the inner Circle.Rain Man is obviously part of the inner Circle.Rain Man is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2013, 12:16 PM   #88
Fish Fish is online now
Missing Dick Curl
 
Fish's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2005
Casino cash: $6760
Quote:
Originally Posted by lawrenceRaider View Post
There is not a single mention in the constitution that says anything about separation of church and state. It doesn't exist. Everyone thinks it does because a judge decided to be an activist and stated that it does. The phrase, "separation of church and state" come from Thomas Jefferson. The constitution does say that there cannot be a state religion. What the constitution actually says: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." Having a cross on public land in no way violates this as Congress has not made a law about it.
WTF? You're really trying to twist the words of the Constitutional amendment to weasel out of separation of church and state? .... OK....

That makes you look even more retarded than your Raider allegiance does. Are we next going to argue that the Constitution actually meant the furry appendages of a four-legged bear when referring to "Bear arms"?

Article VI provides that all state and federal officials "shall be bound by oath or affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States." The First Amendment's Establishment Clause provides that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion"--meaning that not only no church but no "religion" could be made the official faith of the United States. Finally the Free Exercise Clause provides that Congress shall not make laws "prohibiting the free exercise" of religion.

If government can't require its officials to support a church; may not support a church itself; and may not interfere with the worship or belief of any church(Christian, Muslim, Greek, Egyptian, Satanic), is there a serious argument that church and state are not separate?

Also note that the Constitution does not once mention God.
__________________
Posts: 25,795
Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2013, 12:28 PM   #89
KChiefer KChiefer is offline
Fantastic Planeteer
 
KChiefer's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Champaign, IL
Casino cash: $6109
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorter View Post
Jehovah Witnesses, this is why you fail.


Accept my belief system or I will interrupt your neighbor's Saturday next.
Posts: 4,862
KChiefer wants to die in a aids tree fire.KChiefer wants to die in a aids tree fire.KChiefer wants to die in a aids tree fire.KChiefer wants to die in a aids tree fire.KChiefer wants to die in a aids tree fire.KChiefer wants to die in a aids tree fire.KChiefer wants to die in a aids tree fire.KChiefer wants to die in a aids tree fire.KChiefer wants to die in a aids tree fire.KChiefer wants to die in a aids tree fire.KChiefer wants to die in a aids tree fire.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2013, 12:42 PM   #90
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
BucPatriot
 
BucEyedPea's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: None of your business
Casino cash: $8143
Quote:
Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
We have laws regarding public land usage. The cross is on public land. Therefore, allowing a display on public land that clearly supports one particular religious belief even violates your own stated understanding of the Constitution.
Are for removing cross memorials at Arlington National Cemetary?

I forget is this one on state public land or national?
__________________
Posts: 57,397
BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.BucEyedPea is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:14 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.