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Old 12-16-2013, 09:08 AM  
Msmith Msmith is offline
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An objective look about the ObamaCare

An article was written by Michael Boskin about the coming economic and political problems of ObamaCare. He was the economic adviser under W Bush so he might have some biases toward the ACA. I just list some of his main points:

1. The sticker shock - the premiums are 30% higher with higher deductibles and copays for many people.

2. The "I can't keep my doctor" shock - insurance companies, given cost pressures, will offer plans that have very restrictive networks.

3. IT failures - the back-office side of the website is not done, which means to face possible delay in eligibility, coverage gap, billing, claims, insurer payment and patient information protection.

4. Fewer health providers and longer waiting line shock - many doctors/hospitals would not accept any new patients in Medicare and Medicaid.

5. Medicaid spending for the states - This pressure on state budgets means less money on education and transportation or higher state taxes.

6. The "Cadillac tax" shock - it will fall heavily on unions four years from now.

There are political shocks which I am not certain that could happen so I am not getting into that. Even though the writer was a Bush's man but his opinions are very legit. So far I have not seen any ObamaCare supporters refute any "crying wolf" warning with objective reasoning.

Link: http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/...60603531505102
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Old 12-17-2013, 08:18 AM   #16
blake5676 blake5676 is offline
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Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
Please explain how this works when the Federal govt picks up the entire tab for Medicaid expansion for a while?

WSJ peddling blatant false propaganda. SHOCKER
You're a staunch defender of this law...can you defend or argue any of the points I made? Not trying to be an ass but I'd love to hear you try.

And yes, the govt is picking up 100% of the tab on this Medicaid expansion for the next 3 years and then 90% after that. The problem is, at least in the states who rejected the handout, that many believe this will put too much of a burden on federal spending and those percentages will change and shift more burden to the states when the cost is realized. Wouldn't be the 1st, or even the 10th time they've changed parts of the law as they please.
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Old 12-17-2013, 08:24 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Msmith View Post
It is almost like a biblical prophecy about people bowing down to the beast.
...... really?
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Old 12-17-2013, 09:04 AM   #18
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The most amazing thing about Obamacare is that people still defend it.
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Old 12-17-2013, 09:39 AM   #19
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admittedly, i don't know much about this whole thing....but.....

Why can't someone just shop for insurance on their own? Why do they have to use this government BS? I did it myself back when I was in college and I picked a Humana plan.
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Originally Posted by big nasty kcnut View Post
yeah i may be a retard but I'll be the one banging your girlfriend when you're out with your friends.
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Old 12-17-2013, 09:40 AM   #20
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...... really?
The ACA mandates everyone to have insurance. The insurance has high premium and high deductible. Many families with low income couldn't really afford it. However, the government offers rebate/subsidy which those families must enroll into the Market Exchange first. I see it as the public will be more and more dependent to the government as a baby sucking on mom's teat.
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Old 12-17-2013, 09:43 AM   #21
loochy loochy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Msmith View Post
The ACA mandates everyone to have insurance. The insurance has high premium and high deductible. Many families with low income couldn't really afford it. However, the government offers rebate/subsidy which those families must enroll into the Market Exchange first. I see it as the public will be more and more dependent to the government as a baby sucking on mom's teat.
well i guess that answers it...so if i lost my insurance from work for whatever reason i should just not even bother with the exchange because i know for sure i won't get any sort of subsidy
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Originally Posted by big nasty kcnut View Post
yeah i may be a retard but I'll be the one banging your girlfriend when you're out with your friends.
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Old 12-17-2013, 09:49 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by loochy View Post
admittedly, i don't know much about this whole thing....but.....

Why can't someone just shop for insurance on their own? Why do they have to use this government BS? I did it myself back when I was in college and I picked a Humana plan.
They can, if they don't want a subsidy to help pay for the plan. The problem is, plans that used to cost less than $100 are now $2-300.
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Old 12-17-2013, 09:50 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by loochy View Post
well i guess that answers it...so if i lost my insurance from work for whatever reason i should just not even bother with the exchange because i know for sure i won't get any sort of subsidy
The government sets up an income guideline vs subsidy. The analogy is comparable to getting financial aid vs family income.
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Old 12-17-2013, 10:14 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Msmith View Post
The ACA mandates everyone to have insurance. The insurance has high premium and high deductible. Many families with low income couldn't really afford it. However, the government offers rebate/subsidy which those families must enroll into the Market Exchange first. I see it as the public will be more and more dependent to the government as a baby sucking on mom's teat.
The insurance industry has been heading in that direction for quite some time. But it's not because of any nefarious biblically prophecized affront to the American people. It's because our health care costs are out of control. Our health care costs, before the ACA was ever conceived, had risen dramatically to the point that the US costs are nearly double what other countries are spending on healthcare.







http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/...countries.html

And that wouldn't be all bad if our economy could keep pace with our health care spending. But it clearly can't come close.



Seriously, how can you look at that and not expect our insurance to increase dramatically?

But instead of addressing our costs and how to lower them back to manageable levels, all we do is whine about the insurance part of it (Obamacare) and how it is destroying everything. Like the ACA is the root of the problems. It's not. The ACA has been a failure, that's true. But way too often it's being blamed as the source of the health care problems we have, despite the fact that our problems have been growing for a long time and we haven't done shit about it. Now we've put off addressing it for so long that it's become a huge problem without any easy fix. And the blame game is in full swing.

ACA is a total mess. But let's not act like everything was peachy beforehand. I'd be fine with scrapping the ACA. But we damn sure better have an even better plan to address health care costs before we flush it. Because going back to the way things were before ACA isn't going to fix shit. We have to address our costs first and foremost. Politicians are largely ignoring this because the time required to implement it and see results would far exceed their election cycle.
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Old 12-17-2013, 10:50 AM   #25
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Very nice post, Fish. Maybe the mess of ACA would force everyone to find a better solution for the health care system. Meanwhile, should we just endure it?
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Old 12-17-2013, 11:12 AM   #26
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Very nice post, Fish. Maybe the mess of ACA would force everyone to find a better solution for the health care system. Meanwhile, should we just endure it?
No I don't think we should endure it. We should do everything we can to demand a real working solution. We need to quit blaming "The other side" and start focusing on our crazy health care costs. We're too caught up on a magical solution for the insurance side of it. But the insurance part of it is and always will be dependent on the actual costs. Tweaking the insurance part of it isn't going to fix the source of the problem. The insurance part of it must go up when the costs go up. There's no way around that. And we're not going to fix the whole enchilada by working backwards starting with the insurance part. I don't have a solution for the cost. It's very very complicated. But the point is that we're approaching the entire thing backwards.
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Old 12-19-2013, 11:41 AM   #27
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Having struggled with multiple ruptured discs because of an industrial accident to my spine, I had the same doctor for 25 years. Being ineligible to receive any disability (I tried and gave up after a few years) my role was to somehow manage indescribable pain so that I could continue working and generating tax money to support healthy minorities who are living on the federal welfare system.

So when I had a massive heart attack she knew my medical history and helped me complete paperwork that allowed me to retire early on disability with only 3 herniated discs and one faulty valve that they couldn't repair. I coded on them three times during the operation. The lead surgeon said they worked on me for hours and finally just closed me up because nobody could live through an epic beat down like that anyway.

What a wonderful country if you are blessed by the benevolent Democratic party and can share in the redistribution of wealth. I still pay taxes so their constituents can have free phones, food stamps, rent, and health care. I am not eligible again for any of that stuff.

Well now, after working and contributing for 35 years to my retirement the Democrats want to change the rules. They want to drain Medicare to help pay for Obamascrew. This means that I will have to pay for Medicare but nobody in the medical industry will accept it because Medicare won't pay fair market value for anything.

Its obvious that the people defending this shit are on the free ride receiving end of it or haven't been abused by it yet. Or they are just so scared of admitting that the "Progressive" movement is a pseudonym for communism that they are going to use any circular reasoning they can to condone it.
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Old 12-19-2013, 11:46 AM
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Old 12-19-2013, 11:51 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish View Post
The insurance industry has been heading in that direction for quite some time. But it's not because of any nefarious biblically prophecized affront to the American people. It's because our health care costs are out of control. Our health care costs, before the ACA was ever conceived, had risen dramatically to the point that the US costs are nearly double what other countries are spending on healthcare.







http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/...countries.html

And that wouldn't be all bad if our economy could keep pace with our health care spending. But it clearly can't come close.



Seriously, how can you look at that and not expect our insurance to increase dramatically?

But instead of addressing our costs and how to lower them back to manageable levels, all we do is whine about the insurance part of it (Obamacare) and how it is destroying everything. Like the ACA is the root of the problems. It's not. The ACA has been a failure, that's true. But way too often it's being blamed as the source of the health care problems we have, despite the fact that our problems have been growing for a long time and we haven't done shit about it. Now we've put off addressing it for so long that it's become a huge problem without any easy fix. And the blame game is in full swing.

ACA is a total mess. But let's not act like everything was peachy beforehand. I'd be fine with scrapping the ACA. But we damn sure better have an even better plan to address health care costs before we flush it. Because going back to the way things were before ACA isn't going to fix shit. We have to address our costs first and foremost. Politicians are largely ignoring this because the time required to implement it and see results would far exceed their election cycle.
Pretty much agree. ACA is a terrible attempt at addressing a real problem.
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Old 12-19-2013, 11:55 AM   #29
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The ACA has less to do with controlling health care costs then it does to controlling you and me.
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Old 12-19-2013, 12:36 PM   #30
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Pretty much agree. ACA is a terrible attempt at addressing a real problem.
Basically, this is my biggest issue as well. On a wide scale, it attempts to give everyone insurance so we can pat ourselves on the back and sleep well at night thinking everyone is #COVERED or whatever lame ass term they're using.

In reality, all you did was give someone a card. They still have deductibles, co-pays and coinsurance to meet. If they couldn't afford to fork over 50-60 bucks a month for a catastrophic plan before the law, how are they all of the sudden supposed to be able to afford this new premium (even with the subsidies) and then 5k out of pocket before that shiny new card starts paying for anything???

It's lipstick on a bigger problem. It's a political and legacy play. It does nothing to actually make HEALTHCARE, not health insurance (2 different things), more affordable.
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