Home Mail MemberMap Chat (0) Wallpapers
Go Back   ChiefsPlanet > The Lounge > D.C.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-16-2013, 04:34 PM  
mikey23545 mikey23545 is offline
MVP
 
mikey23545's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Casino cash: $10595
Oh Paaaaat -Judge says NSA spying ‘almost Orwellian,’ likely unconstitutional

In a stinging rebuke to President Barack Obama’s surveillance policies, a federal judge on Monday branded the National Security Agency’s mass collection of Americans’ telephone data “almost Orwellian” and likely a violation of the Constitution.

Appeals Court Judge Richard Leon invoked Founding Father James Madison and the Beatles in a frequently scathing ruling. Leon, appointed by then-President George W. Bush, ordered the government to halt bulk collection of so-called telephony metadata and destroy information already collected through that program. But he suspended his order as the case works its way through the courts.

“I cannot imagine a more ‘indiscriminate’ and ‘abitrary invasion’ than this systematic and high-tech collection and retention of personal data on virtually every single citizen for purposes of querying and analyzing it without prior judicial approval,” Leon wrote.

The judge also dealt a blow to the government’s argument that such surveillance programs — a source of controversy ever since former NSA contractor Edward Snowden revealed their reach in a series of unauthorized disclosures — are necessary to thwarting terrorist plots.

“The Government does not cite a single instance in which analysis of the NSA’s bulk metadata collection actually stopped an imminent attack, or otherwise aided the Government in achieving any objective that was time-sensitive in nature,” he wrote.

Leon said Founding Father James Madison would likely be “aghast” at the NSA’s activities — but also conjured up a Beatles-themed image to rebut the government’s suggestion that it does not collect Verizon metadata.

“To draw an analogy, if the NSA’s program operates the way the Government suggests it does, then omitting Verizon Wireless, AT&T, and Sprint from the collection would be like omitting John, Paul, and George from a historical analysis of the Beatles. A Ringo-only database doesn’t make any sense, and I cannot believe the Government would create, maintain, and so ardently defend such a system,” he wrote in footnote 36 on page 38.

Among Leon’s other flourishes, he warned that the so-called war on terrorism “realistically could be forever!” He expressed concerns about the “almost Orwellian technology that enables the Government to store and analyze the phone metadata of every telephone user in the United States.” And he said modern-day surveillance tactics would have been “the stuff of science fiction” at the time a precedent ruling was issued.

The White House had no immediate response to the ruling.
Posts: 12,247
mikey23545 has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.mikey23545 has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.mikey23545 has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.mikey23545 has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.mikey23545 has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.mikey23545 has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.mikey23545 has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.mikey23545 has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.mikey23545 has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.mikey23545 has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.mikey23545 has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2013, 06:27 AM   #16
Aries Walker Aries Walker is offline
Back again.
 
Aries Walker's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Aspen Hill, MD
Casino cash: $10893
It'll be overturned.
Posts: 5,029
Aries Walker is too fat/Omaha.Aries Walker is too fat/Omaha.Aries Walker is too fat/Omaha.Aries Walker is too fat/Omaha.Aries Walker is too fat/Omaha.Aries Walker is too fat/Omaha.Aries Walker is too fat/Omaha.Aries Walker is too fat/Omaha.Aries Walker is too fat/Omaha.Aries Walker is too fat/Omaha.Aries Walker is too fat/Omaha.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2013, 10:07 AM   #17
KC native KC native is online now
a toda madre o un desmadre
 
KC native's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Casino cash: $17051
Long but awesome read on where the NSA programs came from, how they got approval, and how Obama continued them. I won't post the entire article as it is way too long but everyone should read it (even you patty, your god aka the worst VP ever aka dick cheney gets a lot of press in it).

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2...6fa_fact_lizza

Quote:
On March 12, 2013, James R. Clapper appeared before the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence to discuss the threats facing America. Clapper, who is seventy-two, is a retired Air Force general and Barack Obama’s director of National Intelligence, in charge of overseeing the National Security Agency, the Central Intelligence Agency, and fourteen other U.S. spy agencies. Clapper is bald, with a gray goatee and rimless spectacles, and his affect is intimidatingly bureaucratic. The fifteen-member Intelligence Committee was created in the nineteen-seventies, after a series of investigations revealed that the N.S.A. and the C.I.A. had, for years, been illegally spying on Americans. The panel’s mission is to conduct “vigilant legislative oversight” of the intelligence community, but more often it treats senior intelligence officials like matinée idols. As the senators took turns at the microphone, greeting Clapper with anodyne statements and inquiries, he obligingly led them on a tour of the dangers posed by homegrown extremists, far-flung terrorist groups, and emerging nuclear powers.

“This hearing is really a unique opportunity to inform the American public to the extent we can about the threats we face as a nation, and worldwide,” Dianne Feinstein, a California Democrat and the committee’s chairman, said at one point. She asked committee members to “refrain from asking questions here that have classified answers.” Saxby Chambliss, a Georgia Republican, asked about the lessons of the terrorist attack in Benghazi. Marco Rubio, a Florida Republican, asked about the dangers of Egypt’s Muslim Brotherhood.

Toward the end of the hearing, Feinstein turned to Senator Ron Wyden, of Oregon, also a Democrat, who had a final question. The two senators have been friends. Feinstein held a baby shower for Wyden and his wife, Nancy Bass, before the birth of twins, in 2007. But, since then, their increasingly divergent views on intelligence policy have strained the relationship. “This is an issue where we just have a difference of opinion,” Wyden told me. Feinstein often uses the committee to bolster the tools that spy agencies say they need to protect the country, and Wyden has been increasingly concerned about privacy rights. For almost a decade, he has been trying to force intelligence officials like Clapper to be more forthcoming about spy programs that gather information about Americans who have no connection to terrorism.

Wyden had an uneasy kind of vindication in June, three months after Clapper’s appearance, when Edward Snowden, a former contractor at the N.S.A., leaked pages and pages of classified N.S.A. documents. They showed that, for the past twelve years, the agency has been running programs that secretly collect detailed information about the phone and Internet usage of Americans. The programs have been plagued by compliance issues, and the legal arguments justifying the surveillance regime have been kept from view. Wyden has long been aware of the programs and of the agency’s appalling compliance record, and has tried everything short of disclosing classified information to warn the public. At the March panel, he looked down at Clapper as if he were about to eat a long-delayed meal.

Wyden estimates that he gets about fifteen minutes a year to ask questions of top intelligence officials at open hearings. With the help of his intelligence staffer, John Dickas, a thirty-five-year-old from Beaverton, Oregon, whom Wyden calls “the hero of the intelligence-reform movement,” Wyden often spends weeks preparing his questions. He and Dickas look for opportunities to interrogate officials on the gaps between what they say in public and what they say in classified briefings. At a technology conference in Nevada the previous summer, General Keith Alexander, the director of the N.S.A., had said that “the story that we have millions or hundreds of millions of dossiers on people is absolutely false.” Wyden told me recently, “It sure didn’t sound like the world I heard about in private.” For months, he tried to get a clarification from the N.S.A. about exactly what Alexander had meant. Now he had the opportunity to ask Clapper in public. As a courtesy, he had sent him the question the day before.

Wyden leaned forward and read Alexander’s comment. Then he asked, “What I wanted to see is if you could give me a yes or no answer to the question ‘Does the N.S.A. collect any type of data at all on millions or hundreds of millions of Americans?’ ”

Clapper slouched in his chair. He touched the fingertips of his right hand to his forehead and made a fist with his left hand.

“No, sir,” he said. He gave a quick shake of his head and looked down at the table.

“It does not?” Wyden asked, with exaggerated surprise.

“Not wittingly,” Clapper replied. He started scratching his forehead and looked away from Wyden. “There are cases where they could inadvertently perhaps collect, but not wittingly.”

Wyden told me, “The answer was obviously misleading, false.” Feinstein said, “I was startled by the answer.” In Washington, Snowden’s subsequent leaks created the most intense debate about the tradeoffs between national security and individual liberty since the attacks of September 11th. The debate will likely continue. According to Feinstein, Snowden took “millions of pages” of documents. Only a small fraction have become public. Under directions that the White House issued in June, Clapper declassified hundreds of pages of additional N.S.A. documents about the domestic-surveillance programs, and these have only begun to be examined by the press. They present a portrait of an intelligence agency that has struggled but often failed to comply with court-imposed rules established to monitor its most sensitive activities. The N.S.A. is generally authorized to collect any foreign intelligence it wants—including conversations from the cell phone of Germany’s Chancellor, Angela Merkel—but domestic surveillance is governed by strict laws. Since 2001, the N.S.A. has run four surveillance programs that, in an effort to detect terrorist plots, have swept up the contents of the phone and Internet communications of hundreds of thousands of Americans, and collected the telephone and Internet metadata of many more Americans. (Metadata is data about data. For telephone records, it can include numbers dialled, the date, time, and length of calls, and the unique identification of a cell phone. Internet metadata can include e-mail and I.P. addresses, along with location information, Web sites visited, and many other electronic traces left when a person goes online.)
__________________
The diameter of your knowledge is the circumference of your actions. Ras Kass

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iowanian View Post
I'm just a little pussy from Iowa
Posts: 18,869
KC native is too fat/Omaha.KC native is too fat/Omaha.KC native is too fat/Omaha.KC native is too fat/Omaha.KC native is too fat/Omaha.KC native is too fat/Omaha.KC native is too fat/Omaha.KC native is too fat/Omaha.KC native is too fat/Omaha.KC native is too fat/Omaha.KC native is too fat/Omaha.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2013, 11:03 AM   #18
mikey23545 mikey23545 is offline
MVP
 
mikey23545's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2000
Casino cash: $10595
Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
I doubt that this court ruling will stop this type of data collection. Either it will be overturned or the program will be modified enough to address some specific concerns, but in the end I think it will essentially continue.

So you are hoping the all-powerful state crushes this attempt to stop its unconstitutional surveillance activities?

Beautiful, just beautiful...
Posts: 12,247
mikey23545 has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.mikey23545 has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.mikey23545 has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.mikey23545 has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.mikey23545 has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.mikey23545 has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.mikey23545 has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.mikey23545 has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.mikey23545 has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.mikey23545 has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.mikey23545 has enough rep power to blowy ou to bits.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2013, 11:32 AM   #19
patteeu patteeu is offline
The 23rd Pillar
 
patteeu's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2002
Casino cash: $5000
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikey23545 View Post
So you are hoping the all-powerful state crushes this attempt to stop its unconstitutional surveillance activities?

Beautiful, just beautiful...
It's really more of an educated guess.
__________________


"I'll see you guys in New York." ISIS Caliph Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi to US military personnel upon his release from US custody at Camp Bucca in Iraq during Obama's first year in office.
Posts: 75,744
patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2013, 05:58 PM   #20
Donger Donger is offline
"Think BOOM!"
 
Donger's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: 33.675° N 106.475° W
Casino cash: $381
VARSITY
They showed that, for the past twelve years, the agency has been running programs that secretly collect detailed information about the phone and Internet usage of Americans

Detailed information?
__________________
I think the young people enjoy it when I "get down," verbally, don't you?
Posts: 78,176
Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.Donger is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2013, 06:29 PM   #21
Loneiguana Loneiguana is offline
Veteran
 
Loneiguana's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Springfield
Casino cash: $9250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aries Walker View Post
It'll be overturned.
Considering the Judge all but said that as he stayed his own verdict waiting for the appeal... and the final say will be the S.C. -- and those fers sure as heck won't stop it... i agree.
__________________
"Most of us can, as we choose, make of this world either a palace or a prison."
–John Lubbock
Posts: 4,199
Loneiguana would the whole thing.Loneiguana would the whole thing.Loneiguana would the whole thing.Loneiguana would the whole thing.Loneiguana would the whole thing.Loneiguana would the whole thing.Loneiguana would the whole thing.Loneiguana would the whole thing.Loneiguana would the whole thing.Loneiguana would the whole thing.Loneiguana would the whole thing.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2013, 07:38 PM   #22
GloucesterChief GloucesterChief is offline
Veteran
 

Join Date: Jan 2013
Casino cash: $11246
NSA spying on everybody has probably caught 0 terrorists.

So not only is it a violation of the 4th it also hasn't done a damn thing to stop the "threat of terrorism".
Posts: 2,069
GloucesterChief 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliGloucesterChief 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliGloucesterChief 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliGloucesterChief 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliGloucesterChief 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliGloucesterChief 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliGloucesterChief 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliGloucesterChief 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliGloucesterChief 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliGloucesterChief 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliGloucesterChief 's adopt a chief was Sabby Piscitelli
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2013, 08:13 PM   #23
patteeu patteeu is offline
The 23rd Pillar
 
patteeu's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2002
Casino cash: $5000
Quote:
Originally Posted by GloucesterChief View Post
NSA spying on everybody has probably caught 0 terrorists.

So not only is it a violation of the 4th it also hasn't done a damn thing to stop the "threat of terrorism".
We don't know how many terrorists have been dealt with as a result of this data collection because the government isn't saying, according to that article.
__________________


"I'll see you guys in New York." ISIS Caliph Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi to US military personnel upon his release from US custody at Camp Bucca in Iraq during Obama's first year in office.
Posts: 75,744
patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2013, 09:44 PM   #24
GloucesterChief GloucesterChief is offline
Veteran
 

Join Date: Jan 2013
Casino cash: $11246
Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
We don't know how many terrorists have been dealt with as a result of this data collection because the government isn't saying, according to that article.
And we should believe that it works because they say so because why? Its not like the directors of the program haven't flat out lied to Congress or anything.
Posts: 2,069
GloucesterChief 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliGloucesterChief 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliGloucesterChief 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliGloucesterChief 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliGloucesterChief 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliGloucesterChief 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliGloucesterChief 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliGloucesterChief 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliGloucesterChief 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliGloucesterChief 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliGloucesterChief 's adopt a chief was Sabby Piscitelli
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2013, 09:47 PM   #25
teedubya teedubya is offline
Waiting Until Next Year!
 
teedubya's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2003
Casino cash: $13685
The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act is a big problem for me... having a FISA court that rules above the Supreme Court isn't constitutional... this whole govt sucks ass.
Posts: 8,458
teedubya is obviously part of the inner Circle.teedubya is obviously part of the inner Circle.teedubya is obviously part of the inner Circle.teedubya is obviously part of the inner Circle.teedubya is obviously part of the inner Circle.teedubya is obviously part of the inner Circle.teedubya is obviously part of the inner Circle.teedubya is obviously part of the inner Circle.teedubya is obviously part of the inner Circle.teedubya is obviously part of the inner Circle.teedubya is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2013, 09:48 PM   #26
Aries Walker Aries Walker is offline
Back again.
 
Aries Walker's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Aspen Hill, MD
Casino cash: $10893
They're spies. Of course they're lying.
Posts: 5,029
Aries Walker is too fat/Omaha.Aries Walker is too fat/Omaha.Aries Walker is too fat/Omaha.Aries Walker is too fat/Omaha.Aries Walker is too fat/Omaha.Aries Walker is too fat/Omaha.Aries Walker is too fat/Omaha.Aries Walker is too fat/Omaha.Aries Walker is too fat/Omaha.Aries Walker is too fat/Omaha.Aries Walker is too fat/Omaha.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2013, 09:55 PM   #27
patteeu patteeu is offline
The 23rd Pillar
 
patteeu's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2002
Casino cash: $5000
Quote:
Originally Posted by GloucesterChief View Post
And we should believe that it works because they say so because why? Its not like the directors of the program haven't flat out lied to Congress or anything.
I'm correcting your misstatement.
__________________


"I'll see you guys in New York." ISIS Caliph Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi to US military personnel upon his release from US custody at Camp Bucca in Iraq during Obama's first year in office.
Posts: 75,744
patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2013, 10:08 PM   #28
GloucesterChief GloucesterChief is offline
Veteran
 

Join Date: Jan 2013
Casino cash: $11246
Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
I'm correcting your misstatement.
You didn't correct anything.

Seriously, the fact that you still believe what the NSA says after they have been caught lying again and again means you have to be the most gullible person on this board.

Tell you what. I have a bridge in San Francisco to sell you. Its big and golden colored. Its yours for $5000. I need the money up front and I will mail you the deed. I can't show you the deed but trust me I have it.
Posts: 2,069
GloucesterChief 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliGloucesterChief 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliGloucesterChief 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliGloucesterChief 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliGloucesterChief 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliGloucesterChief 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliGloucesterChief 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliGloucesterChief 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliGloucesterChief 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliGloucesterChief 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliGloucesterChief 's adopt a chief was Sabby Piscitelli
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2013, 10:12 PM   #29
patteeu patteeu is offline
The 23rd Pillar
 
patteeu's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2002
Casino cash: $5000
Quote:
Originally Posted by GloucesterChief View Post
You didn't correct anything.

Seriously, the fact that you still believe what the NSA says after they have been caught lying again and again means you have to be the most gullible person on this board.

Tell you what. I have a bridge in San Francisco to sell you. Its big and golden colored. Its yours for $5000. I need the money up front and I will mail you the deed. I can't show you the deed but trust me I have it.
Sure I did. You said, "NSA spying on everybody has probably caught 0 terrorists." I pointed out that you have no basis for saying that because we don't have any data one way or the other.
__________________


"I'll see you guys in New York." ISIS Caliph Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi to US military personnel upon his release from US custody at Camp Bucca in Iraq during Obama's first year in office.
Posts: 75,744
patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2013, 10:29 PM   #30
GloucesterChief GloucesterChief is offline
Veteran
 

Join Date: Jan 2013
Casino cash: $11246
Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Sure I did. You said, "NSA spying on everybody has probably caught 0 terrorists." I pointed out that you have no basis for saying that because we don't have any data one way or the other.
and I say that because they have been caught lying again and again, there is no rational basis to believe them unless they produce credible hard evidence. The fact that they have yet to do so leads one to believe that they haven't caught anybody or that the number of "terrorists" they have caught is exceedingly low.
Posts: 2,069
GloucesterChief 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliGloucesterChief 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliGloucesterChief 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliGloucesterChief 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliGloucesterChief 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliGloucesterChief 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliGloucesterChief 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliGloucesterChief 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliGloucesterChief 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliGloucesterChief 's adopt a chief was Sabby PiscitelliGloucesterChief 's adopt a chief was Sabby Piscitelli
  Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:27 PM.


This is a test for a client's site.
A new website that shows member-created construction site listings that need fill or have excess fill. Dirt Monkey @ https://DirtMonkey.net
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.