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Old 12-16-2013, 09:08 AM  
Msmith Msmith is offline
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An objective look about the ObamaCare

An article was written by Michael Boskin about the coming economic and political problems of ObamaCare. He was the economic adviser under W Bush so he might have some biases toward the ACA. I just list some of his main points:

1. The sticker shock - the premiums are 30% higher with higher deductibles and copays for many people.

2. The "I can't keep my doctor" shock - insurance companies, given cost pressures, will offer plans that have very restrictive networks.

3. IT failures - the back-office side of the website is not done, which means to face possible delay in eligibility, coverage gap, billing, claims, insurer payment and patient information protection.

4. Fewer health providers and longer waiting line shock - many doctors/hospitals would not accept any new patients in Medicare and Medicaid.

5. Medicaid spending for the states - This pressure on state budgets means less money on education and transportation or higher state taxes.

6. The "Cadillac tax" shock - it will fall heavily on unions four years from now.

There are political shocks which I am not certain that could happen so I am not getting into that. Even though the writer was a Bush's man but his opinions are very legit. So far I have not seen any ObamaCare supporters refute any "crying wolf" warning with objective reasoning.

Link: http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/...60603531505102
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Old 12-16-2013, 09:39 AM   #2
KChiefer KChiefer is offline
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I don't get the "I can't keep my doctor" shock. If you move to a new city/state, you don't get to keep your doctor. If your doctor retires, you don't get to keep your doctor. To me the people that need to keep their doctor the most are those with preexisting/persistent conditions and those people were generally SoL before.

IT has been a disaster but is getting better.
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Old 12-16-2013, 10:44 AM   #3
blake5676 blake5676 is online now
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Originally Posted by KChiefer View Post
I don't get the "I can't keep my doctor" shock. If you move to a new city/state, you don't get to keep your doctor. If your doctor retires, you don't get to keep your doctor. To me the people that need to keep their doctor the most are those with preexisting/persistent conditions and those people were generally SoL before.

IT has been a disaster but is getting better.
My opinion: The biggest issue isn't necessarily that you can't keep your doctor. People become attached to a doctor and get quite comfortable with them. I have tons of friends that still see the same doctor they had when they were 10 years old. In some certain instances, it is quite advantageous to keep your doctor...some people have more complicated cases/health history's and it honestly does make a big difference in continuing to see someone familiar with both you and your health. HOWEVER, the vast majority of people would be fine. The average doctor visit consists of going in with illness, getting a quick exam/consult, and getting a prescription to fix said illness. You'll likely have no different outcomes in this scenario no matter who you see.

What the problem is, and continues to be, is that EVERYONE was told REPEATEDLY that this wouldn't happen to them. And those broad statements about keeping your dr/plan if you like them, that majority of people will pay less for health insurance, etc are just not true. So when you sell something based on numerous falsehoods (whether they were controllable or not) then the public expects those to be the truth. And it just isn't.

I don't think the law ever had a majority support. I suppose that's debatable and someone more motivated than me could maybe find a past poll that shows differently. But does anyone honestly think the law would have passed if it was sold in reality that:

1) you likely won't be able to keep your plan if you buy it yourself
2) if you make more than 45k/year and don't get a subsidy, you're going to be paying more (sometimes 2-3x more!!)
3) there's a decent chance that your current network (and doctor) may change depending on whether the insurance co decides to particpate in the exchage
4) if you have awesome insurance, ie a "cadillac plan", thats going to go away too
5) we truly don't know what the F@%! we're doing when it comes to making these gigantic changes to something this large

Those are all realities. Can't really debate them. I suppose you can #5, but I'd argue they knew exactly what they were doing when writing and constructing this law (outside of the IT side of things). The evidence and numbers are in their own briefings and releases and projections. I've posted on here my own stats: I'm 31, self insured, BCBSKC plan with a 2500 deductible that I pay $94/month for. It doesn't cover maternity, but outside of that it's identical to the new plans. It has no limits, no caps. But it also is disappearing soon. And the replacement plan (most comparable with same network of dr's) is now going to be $275. I'm the perfect example for how this law is paying for itself...I get to pay an extra $2,000/year in premiums for nothing.

So again...I don't think the whole losing your doctor thing is a big deal for most. Emotionally it might be, and people don't like change. But from an outcome assessment angle, not much will change except for people in special circumstances. But the lies or false promises or whatever liberals want to call them are what is behind the totally justifiable outrage this law has caused. And it's going to continue and quite possibly get worse in the next year.
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Old 12-16-2013, 11:22 AM   #4
Msmith Msmith is offline
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I just talked with my insurance agent whom we do business for years. That is how this ACA playing out in my life in the near future:

1. I must enroll in the Market Exchange first.

2. Then I can buy insurance via the insurance companies that the Market Exchange offers (only three) or go thru private companies like Ehealth or my agent's company IF I WANT THE SUBSIDY. In other word, if you are qualified for the subsidy, you must enroll in the Market Exchange first.

The Market Exchange actually controls millions of people's lives. It is almost like a biblical prophecy about people bowing down to the beast.
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Old 12-16-2013, 11:40 AM   #5
blake5676 blake5676 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Msmith View Post
I just talked with my insurance agent whom we do business for years. That is how this ACA playing out in my life in the near future:

1. I must enroll in the Market Exchange first.

2. Then I can buy insurance via the insurance companies that the Market Exchange offers (only three) or go thru private companies like Ehealth or my agent's company IF I WANT THE SUBSIDY. In other word, if you are qualified for the subsidy, you must enroll in the Market Exchange first.

The Market Exchange actually controls millions of people's lives. It is almost like a biblical prophecy about people bowing down to the beast.
I don't have much of a problem with someone having to enroll in the exchange if they're wanting a subsidy to help pay for their premium.

I do have a problem with that exchange not working.

And I also have a problem with the government deciding for me what a minimum essential health benefit is, therefore making my insurance egregiously more expensive.

However, if you're buying individual insurance and you don't qualify for a subsidy then you don't have to deal with the exchange at all. You can use a site like ehealth or go directly to the insurance company and purchase a plan. Just know that it will cost more next year and in the following than it would have without this law.
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Old 12-16-2013, 11:49 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KChiefer View Post
I don't get the "I can't keep my doctor" shock.
What is your age?
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Old 12-16-2013, 11:56 AM   #7
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"An objective look at obamacare"

"he was the economic adviser for Bush so he might have some bias"


What?
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Old 12-16-2013, 12:59 PM   #8
Msmith Msmith is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blake5676 View Post
I don't have much of a problem with someone having to enroll in the exchange if they're wanting a subsidy to help pay for their premium.

I do have a problem with that exchange not working.

And I also have a problem with the government deciding for me what a minimum essential health benefit is, therefore making my insurance egregiously more expensive.

However, if you're buying individual insurance and you don't qualify for a subsidy then you don't have to deal with the exchange at all. You can use a site like ehealth or go directly to the insurance company and purchase a plan. Just know that it will cost more next year and in the following than it would have without this law.
This is a quote from a reader:

" It's not about the money were losing, it's about freedom - isn't that what America is about? Money comes and goes, Freedom, once lost, is gone for many generations or possibly forever."
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Old 12-16-2013, 01:57 PM   #9
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Id bet those folks who have had a family doctor for. 20 or 30 years will feel a lot better knowing KChiefer has spoken words over this and declared its a non issue because it wont impact her.
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Old 12-16-2013, 02:00 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KChiefer View Post
I don't get the "I can't keep my doctor" shock. If you move to a new city/state, you don't get to keep your doctor. If your doctor retires, you don't get to keep your doctor. To me the people that need to keep their doctor the most are those with preexisting/persistent conditions and those people were generally SoL before.
So who are you to tell others they don't need to keep their doctor except for______. Mussolini?
Fascists running our economic lives.
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Old 12-16-2013, 02:01 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
Id bet those folks who have had a family doctor for. 20 or 30 years will feel a lot better knowing KChiefer has spoken words over this and declared its a non issue because it wont impact her.
The Philosopher King has spoken about what he feels is best for millions of people.
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Old 12-17-2013, 12:33 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Msmith View Post
5. Medicaid spending for the states - This pressure on state budgets means less money on education and transportation or higher state taxes.
Please explain how this works when the Federal govt picks up the entire tab for Medicaid expansion for a while?

WSJ peddling blatant false propaganda. SHOCKER
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Old 12-17-2013, 05:21 AM   #13
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The most amazing thing about Obamacare is that people still defend it.
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Old 12-17-2013, 06:06 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KChiefer View Post
I don't get the "I can't keep my doctor" shock. If you move to a new city/state, you don't get to keep your doctor. If your doctor retires, you don't get to keep your doctor. To me the people that need to keep their doctor the most are those with preexisting/persistent conditions and those people were generally SoL before.

IT has been a disaster but is getting better.
Why the **** should I be forced to change doctors just because some asshole politician decided to **** with my health insurance? You really don't see why that would piss anyone off?
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Old 12-17-2013, 08:13 AM   #15
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Please explain how this works when the Federal govt picks up the entire tab for Medicaid expansion for a while?

WSJ peddling blatant false propaganda. SHOCKER
I asked the question myself. If the Fed is picking up the tab for Medicaid then it is a no brainer for the states to participate. Yet, the state of Kansas refused to take the money. Is it because the governor is a Republican?
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