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Old 12-18-2013, 12:53 PM  
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Medical bills underlie 60 percent of U.S. bankrupts:

Medical bills underlie 60 percent of U.S. bankrupts: study



(Reuters) - Medical bills are behind more than 60 percent of U.S. personal bankruptcies, U.S. researchers reported on Thursday in a report they said demonstrates that healthcare reform is on the wrong track.


More than 75 percent of these bankrupt families had health insurance but still were overwhelmed by their medical debts, the team at Harvard Law School, Harvard Medical School and Ohio University reported in the American Journal of Medicine.


"Unless you're Warren Buffett, your family is just one serious illness away from bankruptcy," Harvard's Dr. David Himmelstein, an advocate for a single-payer health insurance program for the United States, said in a statement.


"For middle-class Americans, health insurance offers little protection," he added.


The United States is embarking on an overhaul of its healthcare system, now a patchwork of public programs such as Medicare for the elderly and disabled and employer-sponsored health insurance that leaves 15 percent of the population with no coverage.


The researchers and some consumer advocates said the study showed the proposals under the most serious consideration are unlikely to help many Americans. They are pressing for a so-called single payer plan, in which one agency, usually the government, coordinates health coverage.


"Expanding private insurance and calling it health reform will fail to prevent financial catastrophe for hundreds of thousands of Americans every year," Dr. Sidney Wolfe of the Health Research Group at Public Citizen said in a statement.


About 170 million people get health insurance through an employer but President Barack Obama says soaring healthcare costs hurt the economy and force businesses to drop medical insurance for their workers.


CANCELED COVERAGE


"Nationally, a quarter of firms cancel coverage immediately when an employee suffers a disabling illness; another quarter do so within a year," the report reads.


Obama told Congress on Wednesday he was open to making mandatory health insurance part of the overhaul.


Neither Congress nor Obama are considering the kind of single-payer plan advocated by Public Citizen, Himmelstein and his colleague Dr. Steffie Woolhandler.


"We need to rethink health reform," Woolhandler said. "Covering the uninsured isn't enough.


"Only single-payer national health insurance can make universal, comprehensive coverage affordable by saving the hundreds of billions we now waste on insurance overhead and bureaucracy."


The researchers studied 2,134 random families who filed for bankruptcy between January and April in 2007, before the current recession began.
They used public bankruptcy court records and surveyed 1,032 people by telephone.


"Using a conservative definition, 62.1 percent of all bankruptcies in 2007 were medical; 92 percent of these medical debtors had medical debts over $5,000, or 10 percent of pretax family income," the researchers wrote.


"Most medical debtors were well-educated, owned homes and had middle-class occupations."


The researchers, funded by the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation, said the share of bankruptcies that could be blamed on medical problems rose by 50 percent from 2001 to 2007.


Patients with multiple sclerosis paid a mean of $34,167 out of pocket in 2007, diabetics paid $26,971, and those with injuries paid $25,096, the researchers found.


http://www.reuters.com/article/2009/...5530Y020090604
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Old 12-30-2013, 05:14 PM   #61
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Old 12-30-2013, 05:18 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
It's okay, I know you don't actually have anything constructive to say in response to the article.
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Old 12-30-2013, 06:10 PM   #63
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Article examing cost of US healthcare versus other OECD nations.

http://epianalysis.wordpress.com/201...sversuseurope/
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Old 12-30-2013, 06:18 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jspchief View Post
Article examing cost of US healthcare versus other OECD nations.

http://epianalysis.wordpress.com/201...sversuseurope/
Not apples to oranges because they use more low tech healthcare--the kinda things that fish would call them out as being gypsys and loons.

Their food is less processed and they move more.
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Old 12-30-2013, 06:36 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Not apples to oranges because they use more low tech healthcare--the kinda things that fish would call them out as being gypsys and loons.

Their food is less processed and they move more.
Did you even read it?
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Old 12-30-2013, 08:20 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
Actually, ACA does try to stop the massive increase in costs. Of course there is a massive profit being made off us, so it is a struggle.

Of course, the actual reasons for the massive increase in costs are largely ignored around here. Google "Bitter Pill: Why Medical Bills Are Killing Us".

Anyway.

Bungling the Easy Stuff

Hospitals are still overcharging the poor. Obamacare was supposed to fix that too. What went wrong?

http://content.time.com/time/magazin...rss-topstories



article continues for another page.
Like I said, Obamacare doesn't really address the problem of rapidly rising health care costs, your lust for price fixing notwithstanding.
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Old 12-30-2013, 10:41 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jspchief View Post
Did you even read it?
I did a quick skim and saw the same ole same ole claims, some of which have been refuted with contrary data. So not closely. I did, however, look at the caveat more which essentially claims not apples to oranges in comparing systems as if they're equal.

Gonna admit I don't particularly trust a site that's composed of "public health" researchers that claims "a particular emphasis on the political economy of global health." Obviously, they're statists with a bias toward govt solutions.
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Old 12-31-2013, 06:10 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Like I said, Obamacare doesn't really address the problem of rapidly rising health care costs, your lust for price fixing notwithstanding.
price fixing...

You guys are clueless

Google Chargemaster prices.

Quote:
chargemaster, the infamous price list of products and services all hospitals use, which seems to be based in fantasy and results in drastic overpricing like a 10,000% markup on acetaminophen. $199.50 was the chargemaster price for that $14 test mentioned above.
Or read this: http://livingwithmcl.com/BitterPill.pdf

I know you won't, so here is the easy version:

A Summary of “Bitter Pill: Why Medical Bills Are Killing Us
http://patriciadubrava.com/?p=187

Quote:
You must have electricity and can’t go elsewhere, are stuck with a sole provider. Your health care situation isn’t much different. You have whatever insurance your employer chooses, can only use certain hospitals or doctors. Most of us “are powerless buyers in a seller’s market where the only sure thing is the profit of the sellers.” But unlike with the electric company, no regulator caps hospital profits. “Unless you have Medicare, the health care market is not a market at all. It’s a crapshoot.”

“The real issue isn’t whether we have a single payer or multiple payers. It’s whether whoever pays has a fair chance in a fair market.” We don’t have to scrap our system and aren’t likely to, but can significantly reduce the $750 billion we overspend. “Put simply, the bills tell us that this is not about interfering in a free market. It’s about facing the reality that our largest consumer product by far—one-fifth of our economy—does not operate in a free market.”
/Its almost like most companies know you will pay an arm and a leg to save a loved ones life and can get away with outrageous prices.
//for a free market to work, there needs to be a price a person won't pay to save someones life
///and who actual wants a society where we let people die from not being able to afford health insurance anyway...
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Last edited by Loneiguana; 12-31-2013 at 06:32 AM..
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Old 12-31-2013, 06:49 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
price fixing...

You guys are clueless

Google Chargemaster prices.



Or read this: http://livingwithmcl.com/BitterPill.pdf

I know you won't, so here is the easy version:

A Summary of “Bitter Pill: Why Medical Bills Are Killing Us
http://patriciadubrava.com/?p=187


/Its almost like most companies know you will pay an arm and a leg to save a loved ones life and can get away with outrageous prices.
//for a free market to work, there needs to be a price a person won't pay to save someones life
///and who actual wants a society where we let people die from not being able to afford health insurance anyway...
Do you even read your own cut and paste jobs? You're advocating price fixing.
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Old 12-31-2013, 07:51 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Do you even read your own cut and paste jobs? You're advocating price fixing.
He suffers from wrongly defined terms and wouldn't recognize half the things he claims as being "A" when they're actually "B" or "C." This is what liberal arts college students produces.
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Old 12-31-2013, 09:22 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by Cave Johnson View Post
Add a profit motive at every level of the healthcare industry with consumers' inability to price discriminate and you have our very ****ed up system.
...caused by the policies you recommend more of.
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Old 12-31-2013, 10:44 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
He suffers from wrongly defined terms and wouldn't recognize half the things he claims as being "A" when they're actually "B" or "C." This is what liberal arts college students produces.
Yes, that appears to be the case.
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Old 01-01-2014, 06:17 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Do you even read your own cut and paste jobs? You're advocating price fixing.
Well, I guess, now to Conservatives, consumer protection against price gouging and monopoly style control of prices is "price fixing".

Of course, your ignoring everything the article writes about the failure of the market to protect the consumer to just say "price fixing" is because you don't actually have a rebuttal against the information that the ACA tries to stop out of control costs and protect the consumer. Like yelling commie over and over again and things you don't like, it only shows how you can't articulate an actual response.
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Old 01-01-2014, 08:13 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
Well, I guess, now to Conservatives, consumer protection against price gouging and monopoly style control of prices is "price fixing".

Of course, your ignoring everything the article writes about the failure of the market to protect the consumer to just say "price fixing" is because you don't actually have a rebuttal against the information that the ACA tries to stop out of control costs and protect the consumer. Like yelling commie over and over again and things you don't like, it only shows how you can't articulate an actual response.
Speaking of articulation, why don't you articulate your best argument for how Obamacare addresses underlying health care costs in a concise and coherent manner and then we can talk. Until then, I'm not really interested in responding to the cut and pastes you post that you don't even seem to understand.
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Old 01-01-2014, 09:13 AM   #75
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Well, I guess, now to non-socialist economists, consumer protection against price gouging and monopoly style control of prices is "price fixing".
FYP

Define monopoly. Oh, wait you can't...you'd say it's a result of free markets, while pushing for govt monopoly.
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