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Old 12-23-2013, 02:49 PM  
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Question for conservatives on this forum

Do you like the new pope?

And/or

What do you think of the new pope?

I would go into Pitt Gorilla's thread and look, but this is an easier way to satisfy my curiosity in answer to the question.
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Old 12-26-2013, 06:16 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Nope. In Catholicism, at least, believes in both the New and Old Testament. The New Testament is a fulfillment of the old. The Pope is head of the Catholic religion.
That is a gross oversimplification. And since you are not a Catholic, I don't see how you can be so preachy about what we believe in.

The old testament paints the picture of a merciful God. Righteous and judgmental. The new testament focuses more on an individual level and presents a merciful God who gives each person a chance to redeem themselves, particularly after Jesus died to redeem sins for the masses. And Jesus' teachings take a completely different tone. They don't preach to Christians to be judgmental of others; instead, he tells people "let he who is without sin cast the first stone." He urges people to pray for those who persecute them. And when someone strikes you, turn the other cheek. And above all, he preaches to love each other as you would love yourself.

The idea that christianity preaches righteousness and judgment, but not forgiveness, is just completely off-base. It teaches both. But some people like to ignore the latter part.
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Old 12-26-2013, 06:51 PM   #92
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Jesus is also quoted saying he didn't come to destroy the law but fulfill it. In the story you cite about "cast the first stone" he does indeed rescue and forgive her. But he leaves it by telling her to "sin no more". I'm not God and I don't know if he exists but I'm aware the entire purpose of salvation is to redeem you from sin. Which is why people die. Again I'm no theologian but grace and punishment do go hand in hand
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Old 12-26-2013, 06:53 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
That is a gross oversimplification.
Well I wasn't about to go into a long post. ( You'll have me here all day...like you did on division of labor and specialization which showed a complete lack of understanding of what I had posted.) I was not only taught that for 12 years of Catholic school, but also liked my religion which WAS Catholicism growing up, and I was considered pious. Not that the last point is particularly relevant. Just sayin'.

Besides, I said before I've learned a LOT more as an adult outside of Catholicism from a family friend who is a Catholic scholar, including on Canon law and history of the RCC. Catechism was stressed in school, then Bible along with saints.

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And since you are not a Catholic, I don't see how you can be so preachy about what we believe in.
Preachy? What are you talkin' about. You claimed you weren't a conservative but here you are in a thread asking a religious questions for conservatives.

No, I still know what I was taught for 12 years and have religious conversations with family and friends--like the one I mentioned above. In fact it's been on this exact topic.

I'm not even going to address the rest of your rant since you're not even a conservative.
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Old 12-26-2013, 07:14 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
Auto-da-fé? What’s an auto-da-fé?

It’s what you auto not do, but you do any-way...

that's the first thing that entered my head as I read as well.
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Old 12-26-2013, 08:01 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Well I wasn't about to go into a long post. ( You'll have me here all day...like you did on division of labor and specialization which showed a complete lack of understanding of what I had posted.) I was not only taught that for 12 years of Catholic school, but also liked my religion which WAS Catholicism growing up, and I was considered pious. Not that the last point is particularly relevant. Just sayin'.

Besides, I said before I've learned a LOT more as an adult outside of Catholicism from a family friend who is a Catholic scholar, including on Canon law and history of the RCC. Catechism was stressed in school, then Bible along with saints.


Preachy? What are you talkin' about. You claimed you weren't a conservative but here you are in a thread asking a religious questions for conservatives.

No, I still know what I was taught for 12 years and have religious conversations with family and friends--like the one I mentioned above. In fact it's been on this exact topic.

I'm not even going to address the rest of your rant since you're not even a conservative.
I am talking about the hypocrisy of claiming I have no right to voice an opinion on conservatism while you, an admitted non-catholic, believe you have a right to voice an opinion on Catholicism. I am a catholic but I welcome your opinion, and appreciate iguana and cosmos opinion too. I find it comical that you, who constantly preaches about the constitution, are always the first to tell me I have no right to voice an opinion.

And anyone is free to read the debate on specialization versus generalization. That is outside of this debate. But your opinion was hilariously misinformed.
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Old 12-27-2013, 12:42 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by stevieray View Post
...he will lead many to destruction.
Could you actually provide analysis for your statements someday? Thanks.
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Old 12-27-2013, 06:14 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
Jesus was taking a slap at Jews by using a parable where they looked terrible and their enemy, the dirty Samaritan, was the hero. You trying to make that into an argument for loving Muslims is really clumsy.


I didn't see any of your citations of God commanding foreigners be murdered. I can wait until you google those verses. I might even be able to help you if you're having trouble
You didn't ask yourself why Jesus would slap the Jews by using the Samaritan as the one who helped.... it might be something about just because you are a certain religion doesn't mean you are a good or bad person.

And I'll worry about those Old Testament war verses when you provide a passage of Jesus telling me to do the same thing.

But go ahead an ignore what Jesus says... the vocal, so-called "Christians" on this forum seem to be good at it.
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Old 12-27-2013, 06:16 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
I am talking about the hypocrisy of claiming I have no right to voice an opinion on conservatism while you, an admitted non-catholic, believe you have a right to voice an opinion on Catholicism. I am a catholic but I welcome your opinion, and appreciate iguana and cosmos opinion too. I find it comical that you, who constantly preaches about the constitution, are always the first to tell me I have no right to voice an opinion.

And anyone is free to read the debate on specialization versus generalization. That is outside of this debate. But your opinion was hilariously misinformed.
Some things never change.
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Old 12-27-2013, 07:57 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
I am talking about the hypocrisy of claiming I have no right to voice an opinion on conservatism while you, an admitted non-catholic, believe you have a right to voice an opinion on Catholicism.
It's not hypocrisy because one can understand a religion on an academic or intellectual basis and/or a former experience basis. I have said all along that I am a cultural Catholic as my values come from that environment.

Furthermore, as one Catholic academic and historian told me even most Catholics have never really understood it. So many cafeteria Catholics today anyway.

Quote:
I find it comical that you, who constantly preaches about the constitution, are always the first to tell me I have no right to voice an opinion.
That's quite a strawman since I never said that. You're twisting my words to suit your antagonism for some reason. Furtherrmore, your dragging in the Constitution is inappropriate, since I am not the US Federal govt telling you that you can't voice an opinion either. The Constitution was written to restrain the Federal govt on that. There is no jail sentence connected to this. Just a reminder that the question was being asked of conservatives, which you are NOT by actual admission. There's nothing in the Constitution that prevents me from doing that or placing my opinion about your opinion or comments either.

You interpret both the Bible AND the Constitution like a Prog.


Quote:
And anyone is free to read the debate on specialization versus generalization. That is outside of this debate. But your opinion was hilariously misinformed.
Nope.
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Old 12-27-2013, 08:28 AM   #100
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Catechism of the Catholic Church

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_cs...m/p1s1c2a3.htm

The Old Testament

121 The Old Testament is an indispensable part of Sacred Scripture. Its books are divinely inspired and retain a permanent value,92 for the Old Covenant has never been revoked.

122 Indeed, "the economy of the Old Testament was deliberately so oriented that it should prepare for and declare in prophecy the coming of Christ, redeemer of all men."93 "Even though they contain matters imperfect and provisional,"94 the books of the Old Testament bear witness to the whole divine pedagogy of God's saving love: these writings "are a storehouse of sublime teaching on God and of sound wisdom on human life, as well as a wonderful treasury of prayers; in them, too, the mystery of our salvation is present in a hidden way."95

123 Christians venerate the Old Testament as true Word of God. The Church has always vigorously opposed the idea of rejecting the Old Testament under the pretext that the New has rendered it void (Marcionism).
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Old 12-27-2013, 08:30 AM   #101
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From The Catechism of the Catholic Church
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_cs...m/p1s1c2a3.htm

The unity of the Old and New Testaments
128 The Church, as early as apostolic times,104 and then constantly in her Tradition, has illuminated the unity of the divine plan in the two Testaments through typology, which discerns in God's works of the Old Covenant prefigurations of what he accomplished in the fullness of time in the person of his incarnate Son.

129
Christians therefore read the Old Testament in the light of Christ crucified and risen. Such typological reading discloses the inexhaustible content of the Old Testament; but it must not make us forget that the Old Testament retains its own intrinsic value as Revelation reaffirmed by our Lord himself.105 Besides, the New Testament has to be read in the light of the Old. Early Christian catechesis made constant use of the Old Testament.106 As an old saying put it, the New Testament lies hidden in the Old and the Old Testament is unveiled in the New.107

130
Typology indicates the dynamic movement toward the fulfillment of the divine plan when "God [will] be everything to everyone."108 Nor do the calling of the patriarchs and the exodus from Egypt, for example, lose their own value in God's plan, from the mere fact that they were intermediate stages.
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Old 12-27-2013, 08:58 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
From The Catechism of the Catholic Church
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_cs...m/p1s1c2a3.htm

The unity of the Old and New Testaments
128 The Church, as early as apostolic times,104 and then constantly in her Tradition, has illuminated the unity of the divine plan in the two Testaments through typology, which discerns in God's works of the Old Covenant prefigurations of what he accomplished in the fullness of time in the person of his incarnate Son.

129
Christians therefore read the Old Testament in the light of Christ crucified and risen. Such typological reading discloses the inexhaustible content of the Old Testament; but it must not make us forget that the Old Testament retains its own intrinsic value as Revelation reaffirmed by our Lord himself.105 Besides, the New Testament has to be read in the light of the Old. Early Christian catechesis made constant use of the Old Testament.106 As an old saying put it, the New Testament lies hidden in the Old and the Old Testament is unveiled in the New.107

130
Typology indicates the dynamic movement toward the fulfillment of the divine plan when "God [will] be everything to everyone."108 Nor do the calling of the patriarchs and the exodus from Egypt, for example, lose their own value in God's plan, from the mere fact that they were intermediate stages.
And you are basically arguing that the New Testament should be completely disregarded because the Old Testament is the absolute truth. It is not. The New Testament is a new way of looking at the Old Testament. When talking to Catholics who view the common person as a 'lunch table' christian, that also applies to people who view the world through only an Old Testament lens.

The idea that people can achieve righteousness while being hateful of their neighbor is thinking that is consistent with the Old Testament, not the new. The Old Testament establishes God as an entity who enforces justice. The New Testament teaches that he who is without sin cast the first stone. The idea of loving a neighbor even if they practice things you don't agree with is what the Pope is pushing at.
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Old 12-27-2013, 08:59 AM
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Old 12-27-2013, 09:16 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
You didn't ask yourself why Jesus would slap the Jews by using the Samaritan as the one who helped.... it might be something about just because you are a certain religion doesn't mean you are a good or bad person.

And I'll worry about those Old Testament war verses when you provide a passage of Jesus telling me to do the same thing.

But go ahead an ignore what Jesus says... the vocal, so-called "Christians" on this forum seem to be good at it.

Are you talking about the same dude who said he came to fulfill the OT not overturn it? The same guy who said he was only sent to save Jews, who called Gentiles "dogs"? Who beat up money changers in a temple with a whip? Who said he came not for peace but with a sword? Who said he would turn brother against brother?


You're right there is someone on here ignoring his words. But that person is you.
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Old 12-27-2013, 12:20 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
That is a gross oversimplification. And since you are not a Catholic, I don't see how you can be so preachy about what we believe in.

The old testament paints the picture of a merciful God. Righteous and judgmental. The new testament focuses more on an individual level and presents a merciful God who gives each person a chance to redeem themselves, particularly after Jesus died to redeem sins for the masses. And Jesus' teachings take a completely different tone. They don't preach to Christians to be judgmental of others; instead, he tells people "let he who is without sin cast the first stone." He urges people to pray for those who persecute them. And when someone strikes you, turn the other cheek. And above all, he preaches to love each other as you would love yourself.

The idea that christianity preaches righteousness and judgment, but not forgiveness, is just completely off-base. It teaches both. But some people like to ignore the latter part.
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Old 12-27-2013, 12:21 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
And you are basically arguing that the New Testament should be completely disregarded because the Old Testament is the absolute truth.
You know you really need to learn to read. That's your dubbing in what I said aka your interpretation. I said NO such thing.
Quote:
what I actually said Nope. In Catholicism, at least, believes in both the New and Old Testament. The New Testament is a fulfillment of the old. The Pope is head of the Catholic religion.
Now scram. This thread is about what conservatives think about the new pope.
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