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Old 12-27-2013, 07:11 PM  
mlyonsd mlyonsd is offline
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Democrats choose to fund illegal tax refunds instead of military pensions

Here's a new topic for Direckshun...

Senate GOP fails in final bid to block military pension cuts in budget bill

A final effort by Senate Republicans to halt cuts to pensions of military retirees failed late Tuesday, after Democrats blocked an amendment to the controversial budget bill.

The two-year budget agreement, which cleared a key test vote earlier in the day, was expected to get a final vote no later than Wednesday.

Ahead of the final vote, Sen. Jeff Sessions, R-Ala., tried unsuccessfully to use a parliamentary tactic to force a vote on the amendment, which he wrote to undo the cuts for military retirees.

A provision in the already House-passed bill would cut retirement benefits for military retirees by $6 billion over 10 years.

Sessions wanted to instead eliminate an estimated $4.2 billion in annual spending by reining in an IRS credit that illegal immigrants have claimed.

He and fellow senators argued the bill unfairly sticks veterans and other military retirees with the cost of new spending.

“It’s not correct, and it should not happen,” Sessions said on the floor.

"By blocking my amendment, they voted to cut pensions for wounded warriors," he said afterwards. "Senators in this chamber have many valid ideas for replacing these pension cuts, including my proposal to close the tax welfare loophole for illegal filers, and all deserved a fair and open hearing. But they were denied.”

Sessions’ office claimed the vote Tuesday to block the amendment was a vote to "cut military pensions instead of cutting welfare for illegal immigrants."

Senate Budget Committee Chairman Patty Murray, D-Wash.,who brokered the budget deal with House counterpart Rep. Paul Ryan, R-Wis., argued the GOP effort was really an attempt to kill the entire bill.

The Republican-led House passed the bill last week in an effort to avoid another stalemate leading to a potential government shutdown, like the one in October that polls showed was largely unpopular with voters.

The two-year budget deal would ease for two years some of the harshest cuts to agency budgets required under automatic spending curbs commonly known as sequestration. It would replace $45 billion in scheduled cuts for the 2014 budget year already underway, easing about half of the scheduled cuts.

The Associated Press contributed to this report.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013...o-budget-bill/

There's something inherently wrong with a system where senators aren't drug out and clubbed to death like baby seals when they choose to give tax dollars to illegal instead of wounded veterans.
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Old 12-28-2013, 03:43 PM   #31
HonestChieffan HonestChieffan is offline
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Hows about these pension numbers? Compare to a Staff Sargent after 20 years….

http://www.ipl.org/div/farq/pensionFARQ.html
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Old 12-28-2013, 03:51 PM   #32
AustinChief AustinChief is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
So is taking a bullet at 18. Or living with no legs.
I don't base my opinions on these matters on emotional factors. Fishermen, loggers and steel workers have a higher fatality rate than a member of the Air Force, does that mean they should have ridiculous pension plans as well?

I don't like the idea of changing pensions after the fact but the lack of a cost of living increase really isn't a huge deal when looked at in relation to what is an already generous plan.

To be clear, I think there are MUCH higher priority cuts that can be made but as long as we are in the red I will support ANY reasonable cut.
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Old 12-28-2013, 03:54 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
Hows about these pension numbers? Compare to a Staff Sargent after 20 years….

http://www.ipl.org/div/farq/pensionFARQ.html
Just because OTHER pension plans are ridiculous doesn't make military pensions acceptable. Pointing out that Elizabeth Warren is functionally retarded doesn't make Harry Reid a genious.
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Old 12-28-2013, 04:13 PM   #34
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So is taking a bullet at 18. Or living with no legs.
True, and people should give more about who they are electing as far as eagerness to invade countries, start massive wars, and sending soldiers into harm's way.
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Old 12-28-2013, 04:16 PM   #35
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I don't base my opinions on these matters on emotional factors. Fishermen, loggers and steel workers have a higher fatality rate than a member of the Air Force, does that mean they should have ridiculous pension plans as well?

I don't like the idea of changing pensions after the fact but the lack of a cost of living increase really isn't a huge deal when looked at in relation to what is an already generous plan.

To be clear, I think there are MUCH higher priority cuts that can be made but as long as we are in the red I will support ANY reasonable cut.
The bloated spending in military is through good old boy contracts to companies raking inflated bank on the tax payer dime. We have contractors performing tasks inlisted men could do and making 6 figures. Cutting the pension of people who were willing to put their life down for us is unacceptable. There is massive waste in our government and plenty of room to cut. This is not something the ruling class is interested in~
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Old 12-28-2013, 05:08 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by RNR View Post
The bloated spending in military is through good old boy contracts to companies raking inflated bank on the tax payer dime. We have contractors performing tasks inlisted men could do and making 6 figures. Cutting the pension of people who were willing to put their life down for us is unacceptable. There is massive waste in our government and plenty of room to cut. This is not something the ruling class is interested in~
I agree with all of this except the bolded statement. The problem is, what if we paid every retired military member $1 million/year? Would that be acceptable to cut? At some point you have to look at the actual FIGURES dispassionately. You can't simply say that military pay is off the table.

I feel the current pension plan is ridiculous. I also feel that there should still be a pension plan and it should be better than the standard pension to somewhat reflect the danger inherent to the job.
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Old 12-28-2013, 05:53 PM   #37
mlyonsd mlyonsd is offline
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So, the pensions were cut?
Where did I say that?

Not closing a loop hole for illegals and putting that money towards military pensions is exactly that.
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Old 12-28-2013, 06:33 PM   #38
HonestChieffan HonestChieffan is offline
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Originally Posted by mlyonsd View Post
Where did I say that?

Not closing a loop hole for illegals and putting that money towards military pensions is exactly that.
Not according to the intelligencea around here.
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Old 12-28-2013, 06:46 PM   #39
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Old 12-28-2013, 06:48 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by mlyonsd View Post
Where did I say that?

Not closing a loop hole for illegals and putting that money towards military pensions is exactly that.
Do you really think it was that cut and dry? "Hey Burt, it's all good, we can have a cost of living increase on retired veterans who are working age still now. We've found an illegal loophole. Rejoice. We are saved."

I am perhaps too much of a skeptic to accept this is as fact without documentation.
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Old 12-28-2013, 07:03 PM   #41
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I agree with all of this except the bolded statement. The problem is, what if we paid every retired military member $1 million/year? Would that be acceptable to cut? At some point you have to look at the actual FIGURES dispassionately. You can't simply say that military pay is off the table.

I feel the current pension plan is ridiculous. I also feel that there should still be a pension plan and it should be better than the standard pension to somewhat reflect the danger inherent to the job.
I guess the danger factor means little to me. I was an iron worker when younger well before OSHA took over. Risking yourself for a paycheck doesn't stack up to risking yourself for others freedom. I guess I put a high standard on honor. I see little reason to fret over that cost when there are so many obscene wastes of money we can cut~
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Old 12-28-2013, 07:07 PM   #42
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I guess the danger factor means little to me. I was an iron worker when younger well before OSHA took over. Risking yourself for a paycheck doesn't stack up to risking yourself for others freedom. I guess I put a high standard on honor. I see little reason to fret over that cost when there are so many obscene wastes of money we can cut~
I agree when you say that there are a ton of obscene wastes of money that we can cut. Where I disagree is that anything is untouchable. We're talking about a routine 1% cost of living increase on those, under the age of retirement. In sharp contrast, this bill also gave active military a 1.7% increase. Would it be better to pare down their increase and split it amongst those under the age of 62 who are drawing full pension?
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Old 12-28-2013, 07:08 PM   #43
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I guess the danger factor means little to me. I was an iron worker when younger well before OSHA took over. Risking yourself for a paycheck doesn't stack up to risking yourself for others freedom. I guess I put a high standard on honor. I see little reason to fret over that cost when there are so many obscene wastes of money we can cut~
So taking a bullet at 18 to protect some asshole is different from like falling off a roof as a roofer? Dude.
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Old 12-28-2013, 07:16 PM   #44
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Do you really think it was that cut and dry? "Hey Burt, it's all good, we can have a cost of living increase on retired veterans who are working age still now. We've found an illegal loophole. Rejoice. We are saved."

I am perhaps too much of a skeptic to accept this is as fact without documentation.
And I'm not trying to persuade you on anything. You asked for documentation, I tried to provide it and found the best thing I could with no indignation at all.

If I did I apologize because all I thought I did was try to answer your question. In this forum I'm not sure what more you expect.

If you can find evidence something else happened I didn't document or posted wrong feel free to find it. I doubt you can find an instance where I didn't admit I was wrong when proven otherwise.
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Old 12-28-2013, 07:31 PM   #45
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I agree when you say that there are a ton of obscene wastes of money that we can cut. Where I disagree is that anything is untouchable. We're talking about a routine 1% cost of living increase on those, under the age of retirement. In sharp contrast, this bill also gave active military a 1.7% increase. Would it be better to pare down their increase and split it amongst those under the age of 62 who are drawing full pension?
This is pretty much my stance as well. To me, there is a difference between having huge respect for our military(which I do) and deifying them.

Personally I'd gut the hell out of damn near every entitlement program before I'd address military pensions... BUT I'd still address it all the same.
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