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Old 01-06-2014, 08:06 PM  
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is offline
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Sweet Satan statue for Oklahoma

At first I was excited because I thought this was the goat-headed demon that Chris said was me. Turns out it is not Azazel, but my rival Baphomet.



Group unveils Satan statue design for Oklahoma

OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) A satanic group unveiled designs Monday for a 7-foot-tall statue of Satan it wants to put at the Oklahoma state Capitol, where a Ten Commandments monument was placed in 2012.

The New York-based Satanic Temple formally submitted its application to a panel that oversees the Capitol grounds, including an artist's rendering that depicts Satan as Baphomet, a goat-headed figure with horns, wings and a long beard that's often used as a symbol of the occult. In the rendering, Satan is sitting in a pentagram-adorned throne with smiling children next to him.

"The monument has been designed to reflect the views of Satanists in Oklahoma City and beyond," temple spokesman Lucien Greaves said in a statement. "The statue will also have a functional purpose as a chair where people of all ages may sit on the lap of Satan for inspiration and contemplation."

The Satanic Temple maintains that the Oklahoma Legislature's decision to authorize a privately funded Ten Commandments monument at the Capitol opened the door for its statue. The Ten Commandments monument was placed on the north steps of the building in 2012, and the Oklahoma chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union has sued to have it removed.

Similar requests for monuments have been made by a Hindu leader in Nevada, an animal rights group and the satirical Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

In response, the Oklahoma Capitol Preservation Commission recently placed a moratorium on considering any new requests.

"Anybody can still make their request, but we'll hold off on considering them until the lawsuit is adjudicated," commission Chairman Trait Thompson said.

The push by the Satanic Temple has rankled elected leaders in this conservative state known as the buckle of the Bible Belt, who say such a proposal would never be approved by the commission.

"I think you've got to remember where you are. This is Oklahoma, the middle of the heartland," said Rep. Don Armes, R-Faxon. "I think we need to be tolerant of people who think different than us, but this is Oklahoma, and that's not going to fly here."

While Greaves acknowledges the Satanic Temple's effort is in part to highlight what it says is hypocrisy of state leaders in Oklahoma, he says the group is serious about having a monument placed there.

The group already has raised nearly half of the $20,000 it says it needs to build the monument.

"We plan on moving forward one way or another," Greaves said.

Another Oklahoma legislator, Rep. Earl Sears, called the group's effort "an insult to the good people of the state."

"I do not see Satanism as a religion, and they have no place at the state Capitol," said Sears, R-Bartlesville.

On its website, the Satanic Temple explains that it "seeks to separate Religion from Superstition by acknowledging religious belief as a metaphorical framework with which we construct a narrative context for our goals and works.

"Satan stands as the ultimate icon for the selfless revolt against tyranny, free & rational inquiry, and the responsible pursuit of happiness," the website says
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Old 01-08-2014, 08:51 AM   #136
duncan_idaho duncan_idaho is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
There is no separation of church and state guaranteed in our Constitution, which is the final word in terms of founding documents.

The Supreme Court feels differently.

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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
This isn't how it works. There's zero chance that this statue/monument will be built on the grounds of the state capitol.
That's fine. I don't think the point is to actually get the monument built. It's to get the other one taken down.

Equal access/equal protection. Can't give preference to one religion over another.
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Old 01-08-2014, 08:56 AM   #137
patteeu patteeu is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duncan_idaho View Post
The Supreme Court feels differently.
No they don't.

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Originally Posted by duncan_idaho View Post
That's fine. I don't think the point is to actually get the monument built. It's to get the other one taken down.

Equal access/equal protection. Can't give preference to one religion over another.
That's probably their real motivation and there's a chance that they'll succeed. There's a very real chance that they'll fail though. It's certainly not as cut and dried as you seem to think it is.
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Old 01-08-2014, 09:15 AM   #138
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Your false equivalency isn't going to fly. No one is saying you aren't free to choose any religion and practice it in your church and home as you see fit.

And where else can I do so? Are there other restrictions we could impose on what people believe? Can it be discussed in public or should it be prevented from possible spreading through contact with others?
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Old 01-08-2014, 09:21 AM   #139
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I think Barry Switzer is Satan, so maybe we could compromise and put up a statue of Barry Switzer instead?
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Old 01-08-2014, 11:13 AM   #140
Chief Faithful Chief Faithful is offline
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Is that Obama and Hillary at Satan's feet?
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Old 01-08-2014, 11:19 AM   #141
'Hamas' Jenkins 'Hamas' Jenkins is offline
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Originally Posted by stevieray View Post
that's good...what people don't realize is that's exactly why God flooded the world the SECOND time...Only Noah and his generation were perfect..meaning they weren't tainted genetically..Sons of God had offspring with women creating Nephilim..you think Centaurs, Titans etc and Falcon heads on human bodies in Egypt are myths? the Sphinx? look at the statue thread...Katy Perry's video where she is half animal, half human?

they're being desensitized...the total influx of vampires, harry potter, lord of the rings, zombies etc, is just a coinkydink? star wars, star trek? fallen angels are called stars....
This reminds me of the Christian school I attended in 1st/2nd grade. The teachers called my mom in because I was playing with Ninja turtles. They didn't want me to bring them to school, because they worshiped a false idol...Master Splinter.

My mom's response was, "you're ****ing crazy."
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Old 01-08-2014, 11:24 AM   #142
HonestChieffan HonestChieffan is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins View Post
This reminds me of the Christian school I attended in 1st/2nd grade. The teachers called my mom in because I was playing with Ninja turtles. They didn't want me to bring them to school, because they worshiped a false idol...Master Splinter.

My mom's response was, "you're ****ing crazy."

That is foolish and would certainly not be indicative of all Christians.
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Old 01-08-2014, 11:25 AM   #143
'Hamas' Jenkins 'Hamas' Jenkins is offline
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No they don't..
Eagerly awaits the rhetorical gymnastics to support this claim.
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Old 01-08-2014, 11:26 AM   #144
'Hamas' Jenkins 'Hamas' Jenkins is offline
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That is foolish and would certainly not be indicative of all Christians.
I agree, as would believing that the Sphinx and centaurs were real historical figures and that Katy Perry videos and Harry Potter are indicative of the same type of godless fervor enveloping our society.

It's almost like stevieray is a nutjob or something.
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Old 01-08-2014, 11:29 AM   #145
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Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins View Post
I agree, as would believing that the Sphinx and centaurs were real historical figures and that Katy Perry videos and Harry Potter are indicative of the same type of godless fervor enveloping our society.

It's almost like stevieray is a nutjob or something.
Stevieray has every right to his beliefs as do you and I. The success of Harry Potter, the Tolkien books, and libraries full of others that have been classics for years would not support that traditional Christian practices forbid such books.
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Old 01-08-2014, 11:29 AM   #146
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Originally Posted by stevieray View Post
that's good...what people don't realize is that's exactly why God flooded the world the SECOND time...Only Noah and his generation were perfect..meaning they weren't tainted genetically..Sons of God had offspring with women creating Nephilim..you think Centaurs, Titans etc and Falcon heads on human bodies in Egypt are myths? the Sphinx? look at the statue thread...Katy Perry's video where she is half animal, half human?

they're being desensitized...the total influx of vampires, harry potter, lord of the rings, zombies etc, is just a coinkydink? star wars, star trek? fallen angels are called stars....
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Old 01-08-2014, 11:58 AM   #147
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Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins View Post
Eagerly awaits the rhetorical gymnastics to support this claim.
There are no rhetorical gymnastics required.

It shouldn't surprise you (or really anyone) that there is no strict separation of church and state. When the SCOTUS rules on the 1st Amendment's establishment prohibition, it uses language like "statute must not foster an excessive government entanglement with religion" (from 1971's Lemon test) as it balances interests in maintaining a particular entanglement or forbidding it.

In another 10 Commandments monument on government land case (in Texas), the SCOTUS came down on the side of allowing the monument. This is only one of many instances where the SCOTUS clearly didn't find a requirement for the separation of church and state in the Constitution.
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Old 01-08-2014, 12:16 PM   #148
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Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins View Post
This reminds me of the Christian school I attended in 1st/2nd grade. The teachers called my mom in because I was playing with Ninja turtles. They didn't want me to bring them to school, because they worshiped a false idol...Master Splinter.

My mom's response was, "you're ****ing crazy."
Your mom sounds awesome.
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Old 01-08-2014, 12:29 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by duncan_idaho View Post
The Supreme Court feels differently.
Link?

Then why do we have SCJ that disagree? Sorry, the words of the document are the final arbiter. Judges don't always go by that and they can stretch penumbras to suit a pre-determined position. It happens.
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Old 01-08-2014, 12:30 PM   #150
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Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins View Post
This reminds me of the Christian school I attended in 1st/2nd grade. The teachers called my mom in because I was playing with Ninja turtles. They didn't want me to bring them to school, because they worshiped a false idol...Master Splinter.

My mom's response was, "you're ****ing crazy."
I wish my mom had been as logical when presented with similar complaints.

Oh well, love her. Your mom sounds great.
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