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Old 01-06-2014, 09:06 PM  
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is offline
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Sweet Satan statue for Oklahoma

At first I was excited because I thought this was the goat-headed demon that Chris said was me. Turns out it is not Azazel, but my rival Baphomet.



Group unveils Satan statue design for Oklahoma

OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — A satanic group unveiled designs Monday for a 7-foot-tall statue of Satan it wants to put at the Oklahoma state Capitol, where a Ten Commandments monument was placed in 2012.

The New York-based Satanic Temple formally submitted its application to a panel that oversees the Capitol grounds, including an artist's rendering that depicts Satan as Baphomet, a goat-headed figure with horns, wings and a long beard that's often used as a symbol of the occult. In the rendering, Satan is sitting in a pentagram-adorned throne with smiling children next to him.

"The monument has been designed to reflect the views of Satanists in Oklahoma City and beyond," temple spokesman Lucien Greaves said in a statement. "The statue will also have a functional purpose as a chair where people of all ages may sit on the lap of Satan for inspiration and contemplation."

The Satanic Temple maintains that the Oklahoma Legislature's decision to authorize a privately funded Ten Commandments monument at the Capitol opened the door for its statue. The Ten Commandments monument was placed on the north steps of the building in 2012, and the Oklahoma chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union has sued to have it removed.

Similar requests for monuments have been made by a Hindu leader in Nevada, an animal rights group and the satirical Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

In response, the Oklahoma Capitol Preservation Commission recently placed a moratorium on considering any new requests.

"Anybody can still make their request, but we'll hold off on considering them until the lawsuit is adjudicated," commission Chairman Trait Thompson said.

The push by the Satanic Temple has rankled elected leaders in this conservative state known as the buckle of the Bible Belt, who say such a proposal would never be approved by the commission.

"I think you've got to remember where you are. This is Oklahoma, the middle of the heartland," said Rep. Don Armes, R-Faxon. "I think we need to be tolerant of people who think different than us, but this is Oklahoma, and that's not going to fly here."

While Greaves acknowledges the Satanic Temple's effort is in part to highlight what it says is hypocrisy of state leaders in Oklahoma, he says the group is serious about having a monument placed there.

The group already has raised nearly half of the $20,000 it says it needs to build the monument.

"We plan on moving forward one way or another," Greaves said.

Another Oklahoma legislator, Rep. Earl Sears, called the group's effort "an insult to the good people of the state."

"I do not see Satanism as a religion, and they have no place at the state Capitol," said Sears, R-Bartlesville.

On its website, the Satanic Temple explains that it "seeks to separate Religion from Superstition by acknowledging religious belief as a metaphorical framework with which we construct a narrative context for our goals and works.

"Satan stands as the ultimate icon for the selfless revolt against tyranny, free & rational inquiry, and the responsible pursuit of happiness," the website says
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Old 01-07-2014, 04:59 PM   #91
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Old 01-07-2014, 05:15 PM   #92
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scott free View Post
Maybe they are trying to prove some deeply felt point, but personally, I doubt it.

It'll be interesting to see how this plays out either way.
I think their deeply held point is 'no religious monuments' rather than affection for Satan. The Satan statute is just a way of making the point.
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Old 01-07-2014, 05:29 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
I think their deeply held point is 'no religious monuments' rather than affection for Satan. The Satan statute is just a way of making the point.
Guess I just always find these situations silly, does the lack of a Muslim or Satanist display somewhere really infringe on their rights in some tangible way?

Is removing a Christian symbol from a courthouse, govt. building etc, really going to affect the people inside those buildings in a way that causes them to somehow enhance the freedoms/lives of the dissenters?

Its just hard to see the tangible benefit to dissenters, to me it seems like a simple case of butthurt... "waa, we're not as popular as the other thing, we know it and it pisses us off, so we're gonna try to force this on you like it or not".

Anyway, carry on, I've had my say.
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Old 01-07-2014, 05:46 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scott free View Post
Guess I just always find these situations silly, does the lack of a Muslim or Satanist display somewhere really infringe on their rights in some tangible way?

Is removing a Christian symbol from a courthouse, govt. building etc, really going to affect the people inside those buildings in a way that causes them to somehow enhance the freedoms/lives of the dissenters?

Its just hard to see the tangible benefit to dissenters, to me it seems like a simple case of butthurt... "waa, we're not as popular as the other thing, we know it and it pisses us off, so we're gonna try to force this on you like it or not".

Anyway, carry on, I've had my say.
It is silly. The entire situation is silly. That being said, is a statue of Satan really going to affect the people inside those buildings in a way that causes them to somehow enhance the freedoms/lives of the dissenters?
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Old 01-07-2014, 05:59 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
It is silly. The entire situation is silly. That being said, does a statue of Satan really going to affect the people inside those buildings in a way that causes them to somehow enhance the freedoms/lives of the dissenters?
The difference there is that probably 99.9% of the people in those buildings (the people in charge) aren't satanists, and it is they who have the power to enhance.
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Old 01-07-2014, 06:03 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by Fish View Post

I don't agree with the Satanist bullshit in the slightest. But that's not the point.
The point should be federalism rules--NOT the national govt on such matters.
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Old 01-07-2014, 06:04 PM   #97
listopencil listopencil is offline
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Originally Posted by scott free View Post
The difference there is that probably 99.9% of the people in those buildings (the people in charge) aren't satanists, and it is they who have the power to enhance.
So we should erect statuary on the grounds of our legal institutions based on the popularity of the beliefs of the current office holders?
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Old 01-07-2014, 06:16 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scott free View Post
Guess I just always find these situations silly, does the lack of a Muslim or Satanist display somewhere really infringe on their rights in some tangible way?

Is removing a Christian symbol from a courthouse, govt. building etc, really going to affect the people inside those buildings in a way that causes them to somehow enhance the freedoms/lives of the dissenters?

Its just hard to see the tangible benefit to dissenters, to me it seems like a simple case of butthurt... "waa, we're not as popular as the other thing, we know it and it pisses us off, so we're gonna try to force this on you like it or not".

Anyway, carry on, I've had my say.
Well I heard from a doctor friend of mine that the Muslims get their own foot-washing sinks at their city's airport. How's that for being accomodating?

Jews who observe their High Holidays get some protection in Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 :
"Employers generally should not ... refuse to allow observance of a Sabbath or religious holiday, unless the employer can show that not doing so would cause an undue hardship."
Some employers for a few floating holiday for days off for such religious holidays.

Govt jobs I think would have to definitely allow such holidays off.

I agree that secular dissenters are suffering from butt hurt more than anything.
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Old 01-07-2014, 06:26 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
So we should erect statuary on the grounds of our legal institutions based on the popularity of the beliefs of the current office holders?
At one time under federalism that was allowed. Today this appears to be the standard:
What is the ‘Lemon test’ for religious mottos and displays in public settings?

In its 1971 decision Lemon v. Kurtzman, the Supreme Court set forth a three-pronged inquiry commonly known as the Lemon test. To pass this test, thereby allowing the display or motto to remain, the government conduct
(1) must have a secular purpose
(2) must have a principal or primary effect that does not advance or inhibit religion
(3) cannot foster an excessive government entanglement with religion.
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Old 01-07-2014, 06:35 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
At one time under federalism that was allowed. Today this appears to be the standard:
What is the ‘Lemon test’ for religious mottos and displays in public settings?

In its 1971 decision Lemon v. Kurtzman, the Supreme Court set forth a three-pronged inquiry commonly known as the Lemon test. To pass this test, thereby allowing the display or motto to remain, the government conduct
(1) must have a secular purpose
(2) must have a principal or primary effect that does not advance or inhibit religion
(3) cannot foster an excessive government entanglement with religion.
Thou shalt have no other gods before me doesn't seem like a good concept to display in an American court.
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Old 01-07-2014, 06:45 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Well I heard from a doctor friend of mine that the Muslims get their own foot-washing sinks at their city's airport. How's that for being accomodating?

Jews who observe their High Holidays get some protection in Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 :
"Employers generally should not ... refuse to allow observance of a Sabbath or religious holiday, unless the employer can show that not doing so would cause an undue hardship."
Some employers for a few floating holiday for days off for such religious holidays.

Govt jobs I think would have to definitely allow such holidays off.

I agree that secular dissenters are suffering from butt hurt more than anything.
Its all just going too far IMO, everyone gets a friggin display or somehow your American dream has been trampled upon.

Everyone should and do have the right to celebrate their holidays and worship as they choose... pagans can go dance around naked during the solstice, satanists can hold their black mass and have ritualized sex (but they don't worship anything! nope! - liars every one)

But that just isnt enough anymore.
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Old 01-07-2014, 07:14 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scott free View Post
Its all just going too far IMO, everyone gets a friggin display or somehow your American dream has been trampled upon.

Everyone should and do have the right to celebrate their holidays and worship as they choose... pagans can go dance around naked during the solstice, satanists can hold their black mass and have ritualized sex (but they don't worship anything! nope! - liars every one)

But that just isnt enough anymore.
Just get the ****in religious symbols (all of them) out of there. Case closed, problem solved.
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Old 01-07-2014, 07:18 PM   #103
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Just get the ****in religious symbols (all of them) out of there. Case closed, problem solved.
That's a great idea.
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Old 01-07-2014, 07:19 PM   #104
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Why is satan giving the peace sign-shouldn't he be doing the RJD devil horns?
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Old 01-07-2014, 07:34 PM   #105
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Why do people who are anti religion so hellbent to look like fools? If you are not a believer is there some driving force that makes you try to keep believers from having a faith? Im always amazed at the anti religion crowd and the volume and the stupidity of their attack. Is it not enough to not believe?
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