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View Poll Results: How do you view yourself politically?
I am usually both fiscally and socially conservative. 20 36.36%
I am usually fiscally conservative but socially liberal. 31 56.36%
I am usually both fiscally and socially liberal. 4 7.27%
I am usually fiscally liberal but socially conservative. 0 0%
Voters: 55. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-11-2014, 11:36 AM  
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Out of curiosity, how do you view yourself politically?

Poll forthcoming.
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Old 01-14-2014, 01:25 PM   #46
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Republicans didn't invent the term "neoconservative". Liberals did. It's not that hard to learn this stuff in the internet age.
I didn't say that the Republicans invented the term. I said that the Republicans invented the concept, the movement itself.
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Old 01-14-2014, 01:36 PM   #47
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Economic liberalism has been an epic fail everywhere it's been tried. Our economy would be rocking if it wasn't infected with rampant liberalism from the failed "War on poverty"
That viewpoint is not on the list of the DNC's talking points.
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Old 01-14-2014, 03:47 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
I didn't say that the Republicans invented the term. I said that the Republicans invented the concept, the movement itself.
That's not right either. The ideas of neoconservatism came from liberals who were disillusioned with the direction of the democrat party in the McGovern era. The label was coined by one of their fellow liberal associates who was critical of their realignment with conservatives. Most of them were Jewish intellectuals which is why the term was considered a veiled form of anti-semitism for quite a while.
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Old 01-14-2014, 03:52 PM   #49
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Old 01-14-2014, 03:55 PM   #50
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Honestly, I just assumed BEP came up with all these political categories. She's got sub-sub-sub-categories that I've never heard of.
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Old 01-14-2014, 04:06 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
That's not right either. The ideas of neoconservatism came from liberals who were disillusioned with the direction of the democrat party in the McGovern era. The label was coined by one of their fellow liberal associates who was critical of their realignment with conservatives. Most of them were Jewish intellectuals which is why the term was considered a veiled form of anti-semitism for quite a while.
Yes, you are right about that. There is more to the history of the term, and the concept, than what I was aware of.
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Old 01-14-2014, 04:10 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
Yes, you are right about that. There is more to the history of the term, and the concept, than what I was aware of.
The term has really become distorted over the past decade plus. I would argue that the distortions come predominantly from critics (from both parties), not from anyone who would self-label as neocon.
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Old 01-14-2014, 04:11 PM   #53
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The term has really become distorted over the past decade plus. I would argue that the distortions come predominantly from critics (from both parties), not from anyone who would self-label as neocon.
Now that I have done some research on it, I can see that it is not based in partisanship.
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Old 01-14-2014, 05:24 PM   #54
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I consider myself both fiscally and socially liberal because:

1. I think the central government's policing power (both foreign and domestic) and spending authority should be limited to a level that can be sustained over multiple generations.

2. I think that in a liberal representative democracy, political parties should have no more influence over elections than advocacy groups like the NAACP or the NRA.

3. I think that in a liberal free market economy the people, not the gov't, should own the fruits of their hard work, good decisions, and responsible acts.

4. I think that editing religious texts to reflect the states definition of marriage is state run religion.

5. I think that the central gov't establishing an arbitrary standard for living human being (Roe vs Wade) will make it dangerous to threaten the wealth and power of the Party (demopublican or republicrat, whatever) and the permanent ruling aristocracy that rules with impunity in our nations capitol.
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Old 01-14-2014, 05:38 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gonefishin53 View Post
I consider myself both fiscally and socially liberal because:

1. I think the central government's policing power (both foreign and domestic) and spending authority should be limited to a level that can be sustained over multiple generations.

2. I think that in a liberal representative democracy, political parties should have no more influence over elections than advocacy groups like the NAACP or the NRA.

3. I think that in a liberal free market economy the people, not the gov't, should own the fruits of their hard work, good decisions, and responsible acts.

4. I think that editing religious texts to reflect the states definition of marriage is state run religion.

5. I think that the central gov't establishing an arbitrary standard for living human being (Roe vs Wade) will make it dangerous to threaten the wealth and power of the Party (demopublican or republicrat, whatever) and the permanent ruling aristocracy that rules with impunity in our nations capitol.
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You're great at hurling allegations as if they are iron-clad truth.
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Old 01-14-2014, 05:40 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by gonefishin53 View Post
I consider myself both fiscally and socially liberal because:

4. I think that editing religious texts to reflect the states definition of marriage is state run religion.
Question on this one:

Wha?
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Old 01-15-2014, 05:31 PM   #57
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Question on this one:

Wha?
Religious texts have defined marriage for thousands of years, making it a religious institution. If the State has the power to edit religious texts to define marriage, who can stop the state from editing religious texts to define God as the State. I'm not a religionist, but I consider State control over the definition of words in religious texts to be anti-liberal tyranny. I don't care if someone wants to enter a legally binding agreement with their pet rock, it's not marriage. Marriage is defined in religious texts.
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Old 01-15-2014, 05:47 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gonefishin53 View Post
Religious texts have defined marriage for thousands of years, making it a religious institution. If the State has the power to edit religious texts to define marriage, who can stop the state from editing religious texts to define God as the State. I'm not a religionist, but I consider State control over the definition of words in religious texts to be anti-liberal tyranny. I don't care if someone wants to enter a legally binding agreement with their pet rock, it's not marriage. Marriage is defined in religious texts.
The State has done no editing of religious texts whatsoever.
Marriage (or anything else) defined in religious texts is relevant only for that religion. As far as the State changing its definition of marriage, it has done so only for State purposes--extending the rights of marriage to same-sex couples.

It is curious though why you're not concerned about religious texts dictating to the State. Why should "religious texts" get to tell the state what marriage is any more than the State should get to tell a religion what a marriage is?
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Old 01-15-2014, 07:59 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gonefishin53 View Post
Religious texts have defined marriage for thousands of years, making it a religious institution. If the State has the power to edit religious texts to define marriage, who can stop the state from editing religious texts to define God as the State. I'm not a religionist, but I consider State control over the definition of words in religious texts to be anti-liberal tyranny. I don't care if someone wants to enter a legally binding agreement with their pet rock, it's not marriage. Marriage is defined in religious texts.
Wouldn't it be OK for different religions to have different definitions? And can't the state have it's own version without impacting any of the religious versions? I don't really see this as a problem.
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Old 01-15-2014, 08:11 PM   #60
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Good thing we have separation of church and state in this country.

In fact, this is a pretty good illustration of why we have separation of church and state in this country.
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