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Old 01-11-2014, 02:54 PM  
Chiefshrink Chiefshrink is offline
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Frank Turek, Answering Hawking and his The Grand Design

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Old 01-18-2014, 05:08 PM   #136
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and you think this proves what? that corrupted versions disprove it? by giving englsih letters numerical value is on par with languages that actually DID give letters numerical value? Panin used the Greek...little if no room for error.

Christ said not one dot or tittle was to be changed.


sadly, not surrpised a Catholic would follow in his churchs footsteps.

david icke?


got bad news for you, it isn't relegated just to the 11 verses allocated to Christ's geneology.
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Old 01-18-2014, 05:16 PM   #137
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Originally Posted by stevieray View Post
and you think this proves what?
That Panin cherry picked individual verses and words from dozens of versions to come up with the version that contained these numerical oddities. In other words, he created the patterns that weren't contained in any single text.
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Old 01-18-2014, 05:36 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by Dave Lane View Post
Because its a silly assumption to make I suppose.

Trying to shoehorn our concept of how the universe works is not the best way to express the universe as a known construct. Just because it is normal for here on earth does not mean we can extrapolate that to apply to unknown environments.
Then why have this conversation? If I extrapolate from your argument, I can validly conclude that scientific "laws" don't really exist because they only describe what we observe with a high degree of mathematical probability. If our so-called laws of science only describe what we observe, and do not really proscribe what is happening, then they are subject to change and thus not truly universal laws of nature. Given that, it is not unreasonable to say that what we call our laws of nature might not apply in other parts of the universe.

If we can conlude that our laws of nature might not apply in other parts of the universe, then it's entirely probable that the laws of gravity do not really exist and at any given moment some undesirable people could jump off of a cliff and float upwards never to be seen or heard from again.
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Old 01-18-2014, 05:41 PM
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Old 01-18-2014, 05:41 PM   #139
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Originally Posted by cdcox View Post
That Panin cherry picked individual verses and words from dozens of versions to come up with the version that contained these numerical oddities. In other words, he created the patterns that weren't contained in any single text.
Incorrect. He used the Hebrew and Greek. Your skeptics had to go to different
'versions" and give numerical value to english letters to discredit the work. He was challenged to find similar patterens in literature, and he couldn't find any..just like the seven books that the catholic church ADDED did not work either.

"Abraham begat Isaac... to Josia begat Jechonias and his brethren" doesn't leave a whole lot of room for misuse or misinterpretation.
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Old 01-18-2014, 05:48 PM   #140
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It is interesting enough to look into. I find this subject fascinating. As far as conversations go this is the most important one in my mind. I still find your easily proved claim invalid~
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Old 01-18-2014, 05:48 PM   #141
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Dude, I get that you're a believer and all, but this is nonsense numerology. I enjoy going back and forth with you about religion, but this is... I mean, WAY out there.

It seems to me that your belief in your religion has hijacked your brain to SUCH a large degree that you will literally believe anything, as long as you like the thought of it being true. I just... I can't believe a thinking person in the modern world can be taken so easily by obvious stuff like this. This is worse than the Nigerian wire fraud, kinda stuff.
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Old 01-18-2014, 05:52 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by RNR View Post
It is interesting enough to look into.
.... that's all I'm hoping for.....btw, it applies tp the other Gospels as well as other chapters...Panin put fifty years into his work...pretty serious commitment..went to Harvard, was agnostic and converted to chritianity.

thank you, my friend.
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Old 01-18-2014, 05:53 PM   #143
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Originally Posted by mcan View Post
Dude, I get that you're a believer and all, but this is nonsense numerology. I enjoy going back and forth with you about religion, but this is... I mean, WAY out there.

It seems to me that your belief in your religion has hijacked your brain to SUCH a large degree that you will literally believe anything, as long as you like the thought of it being true. I just... I can't believe a thinking person in the modern world can be taken so easily by obvious stuff like this. This is worse than the Nigerian wire fraud, kinda stuff.
I don't believe in religion...that said, you insults don't bother me. fire away.
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Old 01-18-2014, 05:56 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by mcan View Post
Dude, I get that you're a believer and all, but this is nonsense numerology. I enjoy going back and forth with you about religion, but this is... I mean, WAY out there.

It seems to me that your belief in your religion has hijacked your brain to SUCH a large degree that you will literally believe anything, as long as you like the thought of it being true. I just... I can't believe a thinking person in the modern world can be taken so easily by obvious stuff like this. This is worse than the Nigerian wire fraud, kinda stuff.
I have never heard this angle and will investigate it further. I am firmly in the nonbeliever camp. However I am interested enough to lookup what transcripts he uses~
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Old 01-18-2014, 06:01 PM   #145
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Originally Posted by stevieray View Post
.... that's all I'm hoping for.....btw, it applies tp the other Gospels as well as other chapters...Panin put fifty years into his work...pretty serious commitment..went to Harvard, was agnostic and converted to chritianity.

thank you, my friend.
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Old 01-18-2014, 06:08 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by stevieray View Post
I don't believe in religion...that said, you insults don't bother me. fire away.
It wasn't an insult. It was more an observation... Maybe a cautionary tale for the rest of us. I don't know... I used to be really heavy into Christianity and believed all sorts of things that I now look back on and can't believe I was that gullible. My belief that you are gullible because of how this theology has infected your brain doesn't go any further than that. I'm sure you're a great guy and probably much smarter than me. But... I can't help but believe that no sensible person would believe in this number garbage unless they had some kind of wire crossed somewhere.
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Old 01-18-2014, 06:19 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by mcan View Post
It wasn't an insult. It was more an observation... Maybe a cautionary tale for the rest of us. I don't know... I used to be really heavy into Christianity and believed all sorts of things that I now look back on and can't believe I was that gullible. My belief that you are gullible because of how this theology has infected your brain doesn't go any further than that. I'm sure you're a great guy and probably much smarter than me. But... I can't help but believe that no sensible person would believe in this number garbage unless they had some kind of wire crossed somewhere.
You are free to dismiss Mathematics and the Law of Probabilities, really doesn't have anything to do with me.


on a side note...Romans 12:2
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Old 01-18-2014, 09:22 PM   #148
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Originally Posted by stevieray View Post
Incorrect. He used the Hebrew and Greek. Your skeptics had to go to different
'versions" and give numerical value to english letters to discredit the work. He was challenged to find similar patterens in literature, and he couldn't find any..just like the seven books that the catholic church ADDED did not work either.

"Abraham begat Isaac... to Josia begat Jechonias and his brethren" doesn't leave a whole lot of room for misuse or misinterpretation.
You say Hebrew and Greek like there is a definitive text of the original languages. There is not -- there are dozens of variations.

Panin based most of his work on the Westcott and Hort original Greek text, but freely borrowed from other variants.

For example, the Matthew genealogy only reveals the patterns of sevens in the textus receptus version of thee original Greek text and fails on his favored Westcott and Hort version.

Here is a side-by-side comparison of the two with differences highlighted:

http://prototypes.openscriptures.org...=2&del%5B%5D=6

There are dozens of variants. In his overall life's work Panin freely chose from and combined these. He even published his own version of the original Greek that conformed to the numerical patterns he was looking for. Here is a copy of the original Greek text that he created:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/644433/Iva...riginal-Greek-

No ancient manuscript that conforms to his text has ever been discovered.
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Old 01-18-2014, 09:44 PM   #149
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Here's what we KNOW.

Everything that exists in nature that we previously thought had supernatural origins, from the rain to earthquakes to humans and on and on, we've eventually found out that the supernatural parts of our explanations were all superstition and simple minded fables. The common denominator seems to be that when humans don't have all the answers, instead of saying "We aren't smart enough yet to figure this out" we assume that it's magic.
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High Tech is Sorcery and the people who are really powerful are literally telling people to commit crimes using the psychic interspace created by the WWW and Wireless. They are controlling peoples actions like drones . The two things are deeply intertwined. The more man's brain interfaces with machines the creepier it gets. They use brains separate from a human body in a supercomputer and you have The Image of the Beast. The military has been doing this since the 50s
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Old 01-18-2014, 10:52 PM   #150
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But other than the fact that this has no statistical or numeric anomalies what are the odds that all the words in the King James Version would appear in precisely the order they do appear mr statistics man?

But more to the point what are the odds that this post would occur in precisely this order? Considering that there are just over 1,000,000 words in the English language the odds of getting the first word of this post correctly placed are approximately 1,000,000 to 1. Getting the second raises this to 1,000,000 times 1,000,000 and the third and so on. Considering the odds of all the words in this post failing together randomly is staggering. It has to be greater than 40,000,000,000 yes thats a factor of 1,000 greater than Panin.

I think this is definitive proof not just of my supernatural origins, but my mathematical certainty as god himself.

SR you may rise and it would be wise of you to kiss my ring as you have angered me by worshipping other gods. I will not be mocked again. Were you to do this I can promise you a fate that make the lake of fire nosense look like a walk in the park.

In my hell you will be locked in a room with an elderly couple that will endlessly show you their slides of their trip to Scottsdale. "Now this is the house from the east side, and this is another one from the east side but a little more to the south" In addition Justin Beiber and country and ghetto rap will play at odd moments at massive volume.

So you best believe and you best genuflect properly. RNR I suspect you will look into this as well and I wish you luck my friend. Once you are certain of your findings, I do prefer "your holiness".

Quote:
Originally Posted by cdcox View Post
You say Hebrew and Greek like there is a definitive text of the original languages. There is not -- there are dozens of variations.

Panin based most of his work on the Westcott and Hort original Greek text, but freely borrowed from other variants.

For example, the Matthew genealogy only reveals the patterns of sevens in the textus receptus version of thee original Greek text and fails on his favored Westcott and Hort version.

Here is a side-by-side comparison of the two with differences highlighted:

http://prototypes.openscriptures.org...=2&del%5B%5D=6

There are dozens of variants. In his overall life's work Panin freely chose from and combined these. He even published his own version of the original Greek that conformed to the numerical patterns he was looking for. Here is a copy of the original Greek text that he created:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/644433/Iva...riginal-Greek-

No ancient manuscript that conforms to his text has ever been discovered.
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Originally Posted by Chris616 View Post
High Tech is Sorcery and the people who are really powerful are literally telling people to commit crimes using the psychic interspace created by the WWW and Wireless. They are controlling peoples actions like drones . The two things are deeply intertwined. The more man's brain interfaces with machines the creepier it gets. They use brains separate from a human body in a supercomputer and you have The Image of the Beast. The military has been doing this since the 50s

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