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Old 01-11-2014, 01:54 PM  
Chiefshrink Chiefshrink is offline
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Frank Turek, Answering Hawking and his The Grand Design

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Old 01-15-2014, 05:01 PM   #91
nstygma nstygma is offline
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Originally Posted by Dave Lane View Post
Does energy have to have a cause, could empty space build up a charge over time? Is this impossible in your opinion?
define empty.
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Old 01-15-2014, 06:01 PM   #92
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So, are Heisenberg, Newton, and Einstein out too?
Pretty much. Einstein would be the only one of that group whos opinion would matter at all.
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High Tech is Sorcery and the people who are really powerful are literally telling people to commit crimes using the psychic interspace created by the WWW and Wireless. They are controlling peoples actions like drones . The two things are deeply intertwined. The more man's brain interfaces with machines the creepier it gets. They use brains separate from a human body in a supercomputer and you have The Image of the Beast. The military has been doing this since the 50s
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Old 01-15-2014, 06:02 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by nstygma View Post
define empty.
Whatever you consider empty space. Devoid of anything. We have never seen it but for purposes of discussion a simple yes or no will do.
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High Tech is Sorcery and the people who are really powerful are literally telling people to commit crimes using the psychic interspace created by the WWW and Wireless. They are controlling peoples actions like drones . The two things are deeply intertwined. The more man's brain interfaces with machines the creepier it gets. They use brains separate from a human body in a supercomputer and you have The Image of the Beast. The military has been doing this since the 50s
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Old 01-15-2014, 06:03 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by otherstar View Post

That's a good question. IMHO, everything has to have some kind of a cause to explain it's very existence.
Why?
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High Tech is Sorcery and the people who are really powerful are literally telling people to commit crimes using the psychic interspace created by the WWW and Wireless. They are controlling peoples actions like drones . The two things are deeply intertwined. The more man's brain interfaces with machines the creepier it gets. They use brains separate from a human body in a supercomputer and you have The Image of the Beast. The military has been doing this since the 50s
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Old 01-15-2014, 06:05 PM   #95
nstygma nstygma is offline
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Originally Posted by Dave Lane View Post
Whatever you consider empty space. Devoid of anything. We have never seen it but for purposes of discussion a simple yes or no will do.
i don't think it exists.
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Old 01-15-2014, 06:08 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by nstygma View Post
i don't think it exists.
I agree but for the sake of argument my point would be even in a devoid massive area of space 100 trillion universes across there could be areas of uneven potential energy.
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High Tech is Sorcery and the people who are really powerful are literally telling people to commit crimes using the psychic interspace created by the WWW and Wireless. They are controlling peoples actions like drones . The two things are deeply intertwined. The more man's brain interfaces with machines the creepier it gets. They use brains separate from a human body in a supercomputer and you have The Image of the Beast. The military has been doing this since the 50s
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Old 01-15-2014, 10:43 PM   #97
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I agree but for the sake of argument my point would be even in a devoid massive area of space 100 trillion universes across there could be areas of uneven potential energy.
devoid of anything admits there is nothing, no radio waves, no light, no neutrinos, no medium for anything to propagate through, not anything. energy would never ever spontaneously appear. it could only be introduced or induced by something or someone that existed outside the nothingness to begin with.
to answer your question, there could be massive areas devoid of anything, and areas of uneven potential energy could exist, but all of that would have had to originate by some other means, it could never come into being on its own - in our universe, anyway.
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Old 01-15-2014, 11:41 PM   #98
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Why?
Why not?
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Old 01-16-2014, 06:16 AM   #99
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Have a beer...

When you're ready for more, have a read of this: http://www.hawking.org.uk/the-beginning-of-time.html

It's a really great look at this dilemma, from Stephen Hawking.
Think I'll have a whiskey instead!

I know I'm a bit of a simpleton, but I didn't read the whole thing. The parts I did read, and most arguments like the one we had on logic, just seem to purposely complicate things. I don't think life is that complex. It seems the way people argue is to say that Christians are stupid people, because we can't understand these great concepts and men like Hawking. I read it all the time on CP from the resident atheist Christian haters. (Not meaning you). From my vantage point, it seems the philosophers are using a lot of words to cloud and complicate the issue because they don't like the simple truth, again, simple in MY view. There are men way smarter than I and well versed in the arguments, and I guess I'll just let them have at it, since I'm really not adequately knowledgeable about stuff like Cosmology and The Second Law of Thermodynamics (..wtf?). And since this argument has been going on for millenia, I know it won't get resolved on CP.

This is not a cop out, though I'm sure it will be viewed as such. I'm quite comfortable with my view, which I've formed over a lifetime of personal experiences, revelations and observations. I promise you I'm not plugging my ears and screaming "LALALA God is good LALALA". But I'm just not good enough to articulate what it is about these arguments that I disagree with.

I appreciate your intellect and our discussion.
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Old 01-16-2014, 07:04 AM   #100
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Basically, it's the logical argument that says if something exists, it must have had a cause...that's the way everything we know and see comes to be. But, it's logically impossible for things to go back ad-infinitum. Therefore, logically, there must be an un-caused cause. That cause in my view and the view of believers, is God. God is not a creation. God IS. It's hard to wrap your brain around, but logically, what other answer could there be?
If your theory is God IS why couldn't the universe IS?
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Old 01-16-2014, 08:30 AM   #101
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If your theory is God IS why couldn't the universe IS?
Because I believe that there is design in the universe, therefore a designer. The universe is not an intelligent being, it can't design itself or anything in it. Now, if you don't believe that there is design in the universe, that it's all just a random amazing accident, then it's quite easy to believe that the universe just IS.

I can't wrap myself around the idea that it all just works so perfectly by a huge astronomical accident.
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Old 01-17-2014, 04:31 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by InChiefsHell View Post
Because I believe that there is design in the universe, therefore a designer. The universe is not an intelligent being, it can't design itself or anything in it. Now, if you don't believe that there is design in the universe, that it's all just a random amazing accident, then it's quite easy to believe that the universe just IS.

I can't wrap myself around the idea that it all just works so perfectly by a huge astronomical accident.
Who designed the designer?
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Old 01-17-2014, 04:59 PM   #103
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Who designed the designer?
And once again as stated before in this thread we find ourselves faced with the endless regression. Which will be answered the same from the other side. We don't understand it so lets stop looking for plausible solutions it must be god. Then once this concession is allowed the conversation turns to the god they believe in. None of this has any reasonable evidence but that is where the conversation leads without fail~
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Old 01-17-2014, 08:30 PM   #104
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Why not?
Because its a silly assumption to make I suppose.

Trying to shoehorn our concept of how the universe works is not the best way to express the universe as a known construct. Just because it is normal for here on earth does not mean we can extrapolate that to apply to unknown environments.
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High Tech is Sorcery and the people who are really powerful are literally telling people to commit crimes using the psychic interspace created by the WWW and Wireless. They are controlling peoples actions like drones . The two things are deeply intertwined. The more man's brain interfaces with machines the creepier it gets. They use brains separate from a human body in a supercomputer and you have The Image of the Beast. The military has been doing this since the 50s
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Old 01-18-2014, 07:48 AM   #105
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Who designed the designer?
I've already answered that in earlier posts. The designer exists outside of the design. If people can believe that the universe has infinite regression, then why is it impossible to think that the designer might?
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