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Old 01-13-2014, 05:31 PM  
Al Bundy Al Bundy is offline
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Fullerton Police Officers beat schizophrenic man to death found Not Guilty

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/l...#axzz2qKLchle4


By Adolfo Flores and Paloma Esquivel

January 13, 2014, 4:12 p.m.

An Orange County jury Monday found two former Fullerton police officers accused of killing a schizophrenic homeless man, Kelly Thomas, not guilty.

Manuel Ramos and Jay Cicinelli were charged with striking Kelly Thomas with a baton and a stun gun in a beating that left him comatose. He died five days later.

[Updated at 4:12 p.m.: Ramos, Cicinelli and their families were swiftly escorted out of the courtroom.

Ron Thomas, Kelly Thomas' father, said he was stunned by the verdict, saying he'd never seen such a miscarriage of justice.]

The jury took less than a full day of deliberation to reach the not-guilty verdicts.

Orange County Dist. Atty. Tony Rackauckas told jurors the former officers had abused their authority on the July evening when they confronted Thomas.

Ramos was facing second-degree murder and involuntary manslaughter charges, and Cicinelli was charged with involuntary manslaughter and excessive use of force under the color of authority.

The incident, captured on surveillance tape, was shown repeatedly during the trial, but each side drew different conclusions as to what it showed.

Prosecutors said the video captured a real-time homicide with the officers beating a homeless man, even as he called out for help. Defense attorneys said it showed two policeman trying to restrain a violent suspect who possessed abnormal strength.

The coroner's office determined that Thomas died of brain damage from lack of oxygen caused by chest compression and other injuries sustained during his struggle with police.

Defense attorneys suggested that Thomas' death could be tied to a diseased heart damaged by previous drug use.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/l...#ixzz2qKSuVcj0

So before it get's too lost, you should go look at the pictures of this man after they were done with him. These cops murdered him.
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Old 01-14-2014, 08:32 AM   #31
HonestChieffan HonestChieffan is offline
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Gosh... I don't know Matlock. Perhaps it's the fact that there's 18 minutes of continuous uninterrupted audio and video?
Makes you wonder what the jury used to make a decision doesn't it?
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Old 01-14-2014, 09:15 AM   #32
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The first cop is a real hardass; what a punk. That being said resisting arrest never works out too well for citizens. They kept saying "Put your hands behind your back", he kept saying OK, but evidently never did. Had he done so, they'd likely have picked him up off the pavement and put him in the squad car. As for being Schizophrenic, how are they supposed to know? He sounded pretty lucid to me. I guess if you're living on the streets you're likely mentally ill, but who knows. 4 - 6 cops to subdue this guy? I kind of think he was resisting and may have been on something. Really sad to hear him scream for his dad. Aside from the video, I didn't see any photos of the guy.
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Old 01-14-2014, 10:17 AM   #33
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The first cop is a real hardass; what a punk. That being said resisting arrest never works out too well for citizens. They kept saying "Put your hands behind your back", he kept saying OK, but evidently never did. Had he done so, they'd likely have picked him up off the pavement and put him in the squad car. As for being Schizophrenic, how are they supposed to know? He sounded pretty lucid to me. I guess if you're living on the streets you're likely mentally ill, but who knows. 4 - 6 cops to subdue this guy? I kind of think he was resisting and may have been on something. Really sad to hear him scream for his dad. Aside from the video, I didn't see any photos of the guy.
Yeah the whole see how big my fists bullshit was lame. He was asked to put his feet forward and place his hands on his knees and didn't readily cooperate. It was hard to listen to as he sounded desperate and scared. There was quite a struggle and it is surprising they couldn't get him restrained. His voice didn't indicate anger but he looked like he was resisting. The cop with the stun gun didn't help matters much~
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Old 01-14-2014, 10:18 AM   #34
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Its whats not on the video that lead to a verdict. At least Id bet so. You folks go on have an over reaction and scream of the evils of cops….then come back and tell me about government, more regulation, and central power.
The defense was pretty lame. Unfortunately, since most of us are raised to look up to cops and almost worship them from a very young age, it doesn't take much to get a really dumb jury to aquit a cop.

Their defense basically amounted to speculation, without any proof whatsoever, that maybe the guy was in poor health due to drug use (so he couldn't withstand a beating that anyone else could), and they also got some use of force "experts" to say that everything in the video was somehow not excessive.

There was no magic testimony about what happened before or after the video that was relevant, the defense was basically "what? Oh that, come on, that beating wasn't so bad!"

95 times out of 100 when someone is complaining about what a cop did, I'm usually pretty skeptical about it, thinking they are overreacting or have some kind of anti-cop agenda. This was one of those other 5 times out of 100 when the cops should have gone to jail. There was locally no liberal/conservative divide, some very high-profile right-wingers in the area were leading the charge demanding the Fullerton cops be punished.
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Old 01-14-2014, 10:31 AM   #35
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Haven't followed the story; what were the cops there to do in the first place? Why was he being arrested?
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Old 01-14-2014, 10:34 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
Cops are evil /liberals who love government
Govt is terrible /idiot who gets chinnuts over cops beating a citizen to death
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Old 01-14-2014, 11:10 AM   #37
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Haven't followed the story; what were the cops there to do in the first place? Why was he being arrested?
To make this story worse, Apparently a employee at a restaurant/bar right there didnt want "some bum" hanging out in front of their store. So they called the Cops lieing saying the "bum" is trying to break into cars. He wasnt...
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Old 01-14-2014, 11:53 AM   #38
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On Sunday night, My wife and I saw two dogs from the neighborhood trot up to us while we were taking out the trash. We petted, them and showed we were 'friend of dog', put them on our dogs' leashes and tried to find the owner. His number was on their tags, but we couldn't get ahold of them.

So we basically walked around the block, knocking/ringing doorbells of homes with lights on/porch lights on etc. We finally found a neighborhood guy who knows everyone and recognized their names, and knew who their owner was. So we head to the owners house (who also wasn't home). We're standing on his front lawn with the dogs on leashes etc trying to call the owner.

A Lenexa cop rolls up with his partner, and said he had a call of two people 'looking into windows of houses" (LOL). Asked for my wife's ID and I said 'You don' t have to give it to him". He then asks for mine, and I said I didn't have it on me and that if I did, I wouldn't give it to him. He asked for my name, and I didn't give that to him either. I told him where I lived, which was about 10 houses up the road.

We told him the situation, and that we certainly were not 'looking into windows of houses". I told him to run the name on the address in the yard we were standing and told him what name he'd find.

He didn't (as far as I could tell), he and his partner (in their 100k SUV I suspect) walked back and told us to have a nice night.

I'm all for cooperating, but not when I haven't done anything wrong.
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Old 01-14-2014, 12:21 PM   #39
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To make this story worse, Apparently a employee at a restaurant/bar right there didnt want "some bum" hanging out in front of their store. So they called the Cops lieing saying the "bum" is trying to break into cars. He wasnt...
How did you find out about these extra details?
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Old 01-14-2014, 01:06 PM   #40
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if that was my son I would be out hunting down the animals who did it.
Exactly.
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Old 01-14-2014, 01:46 PM   #41
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if that was my son I would be out hunting down the animals who did it.
Well if your son is a homeless drug addict I would think you have already failed as a father so why not take it one step further.
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Old 01-14-2014, 01:49 PM   #42
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Well if your son is a homeless drug addict I would think you have already failed as a father so why not take it one step further.
A valid point~
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Old 01-14-2014, 02:00 PM   #43
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How did you find out about these extra details?
facebook page for kelly thomas, as well as the facebook page for the club in fullerton. They've known about this stuff for years, this happend in 2011. The community in fullerton got like 5 public officals recalled over this crap, the mayor, and the chief of police. But it's just crazy that 12 people (btw lead foreman of the jury was a Defense Attorney who used to work for the Fullerton DA office), could watch that video hear that guy apolgizing and begging for his father and help, and not find that those officers killed that man.

Justice was not served
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Old 01-14-2014, 03:01 PM   #44
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Old 01-14-2014, 03:06 PM   #45
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Well if your son is a homeless drug addict I would think you have already failed as a father so why not take it one step further.
He's still your son.
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