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Old 01-20-2014, 10:33 PM  
Chiefshrink Chiefshrink is offline
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The Incoherence of Atheism - Ravi Zacharias



Ravi is the modern day C.S. Lewis.
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Old 01-21-2014, 07:44 PM   #106
mcan mcan is offline
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Aren't you an adherent to the deities in black robes on our SC? I think so. Well, they've designated atheism as a religion as it does address the big questions of life including end of life concerns, in their own way.
Well, you've just redefined religion as to take away all the things that make it unique. If somebody asked you to define religion, you'd be doing them a huge disservice to say: "it's anything you do that has anything to do with big questions like love or death or the universe." You'd be missing the BIG part of religion, IE: belief in the supernatural, and more specifically, belief that a supernatural entity will intervene in your life if you do, say, or believe the right things.

If you want to define "religion" as any ideology that makes a claim about knowledge pertaining to big questions, then YES! Atheism kinda would be a religion. So would science. So would most things, actually.

Atheists refuse to call their ideology a "religion" precisely because they have taken a stance against the supernatural, and that is the ONLY part of religion that matters to them.
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Old 01-21-2014, 08:05 PM   #107
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If you believe there is no God, you have taken a faith-based position. If you merely don't believe in God but remain open to the possibility that one (or more) may exist, then you don't need faith.
That's still not true. It doesn't take any faith to not believe in something that's never been proven. I didn't comment on your post before about faith to disbelieve or whatever. But that's silly. I don't need any faith in order to not believe in unicorns. Faith requires a belief in something. I'm pretty sure saying that "Something" is non existence of something else would be cheating.
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Old 01-21-2014, 08:15 PM   #108
mlyonsd mlyonsd is offline
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Originally Posted by Fish View Post
That's still not true. It doesn't take any faith to not believe in something that's never been proven. I didn't comment on your post before about faith to disbelieve or whatever. But that's silly. I don't need any faith in order to not believe in unicorns. Faith requires a belief in something. I'm pretty sure saying that "Something" is non existence of something else would be cheating.
Couldn't faith also be confidence, conviction, trust, in your own position to come to the conclusion something doesn't exist?
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Old 01-21-2014, 08:41 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by Fish View Post
That's still not true. It doesn't take any faith to not believe in something that's never been proven. I didn't comment on your post before about faith to disbelieve or whatever. But that's silly. I don't need any faith in order to not believe in unicorns. Faith requires a belief in something. I'm pretty sure saying that "Something" is non existence of something else would be cheating.
No, you're wrong. It's not just that the people I'm describing don't have belief in God. They actually believe there is no god. They aren't even open to the possibility, as you say you are. That's faith.

It does take faith to believe that unicorns don't exist.
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Old 01-21-2014, 10:13 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
No, you're wrong. It's not just that the people I'm describing don't have belief in God. They actually believe there is no god. They aren't even open to the possibility, as you say you are. That's faith.

It does take faith to believe that unicorns don't exist.
Who here has ever said there is no possibility of a god?
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High Tech is Sorcery and the people who are really powerful are literally telling people to commit crimes using the psychic interspace created by the WWW and Wireless. They are controlling peoples actions like drones . The two things are deeply intertwined. The more man's brain interfaces with machines the creepier it gets. They use brains separate from a human body in a supercomputer and you have The Image of the Beast. The military has been doing this since the 50s
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Old 01-21-2014, 10:25 PM   #111
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Who here has ever said there is no possibility of a god?
It might make an interesting poll.
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Old 01-21-2014, 10:57 PM   #112
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If one considers the characteristics of most religions (source: donsnotes.com/religion/common-characteristics.html), one would be hard pressed to make a case that atheism is a religion:

In his book Religions of the World, Niels Nielsen presents 12 common characteristics found in most religions.


Most religions include belief in the supernatural (spirits, gods, God) or belief in some other Ultimate Reality beyond, yet connected to, human experience and existence.
A. Hindus acknowledge 330 million gods and one Ultimate Reality, the Brahman, which is beyond all names and forms.
B. Christians consider themselves Monotheists, but Muslims reject the doctrine of the Trinity as a dangerous possible form of Polytheism.

Religions distinguish between the sacred and profane (or ordinary) in terms of time, space, objects, and people.
A. Mecca is different from Milwaukee for Muslims.
B. Christmas and Easter are the most sacred days in the Christian calendar.

Religions strongly encourage or require prescribed ritual activities for individuals and communities of faith.
A. Rituals connected to birth and death frame the lifecycle in all religions.
B. Most religions celebrate and reenact sacred stories through annual rituals.

Religions commonly promote a moral code or ethical principles to guide individuals and communities.
A. The Ten Commandments anchor legal and moral requirements in the biblical tradition, while shari'ah ("Islamic law") should ideally govern Muslims in an Islamic state.
B. Following the path of the Buddha includes vows of poverty and chastity, as well as dietary restrictions, for monks.

Religious life engages and incorporates common emotional and intuitive human feelings.
A. These feelings include a sense of the wonder and mystery of existence, joy, guilt, and the bond experienced in the community.
B. Religious worship often appeals to feelings of guilt and remorse, as well as joy and thanksgiving.

Religions both encourage communication and provide ways to communicate or connect with the divine.
A. Individual and corporate prayers are visible among Christians, Muslims, and Jews.
B. Hindus and Buddhists refine meditative techniques in order to discover the truth that is accessible within.

Through sacred stories, the religions provide a coherent worldview.
A. The meaning of creation has to somehow fit into a logical pattern that explains how we get from where we are to where we hope to be.
B. Stories about the lives and teachings of the great religious leaders underscore the nature of the human predicament and offer guidance on how to realize the fullness of a hopeful future.

Religions organize life for individuals--including dress codes, personal sacrifices, and appropriate occupations--in the context of their respective worldviews.
A. A Buddhist monk wears a saffron robe and has a shaved head.
B. A Muslim woman wears the hijab, a traditional, loose-fitting covering that may include a veil.

Religions require and promote social organization and institutional forms to carry out the necessary functions of worship and leadership, preserving orthodox teachings and practices.
A. Protestant Christians don't have a pope, and Sunni Muslims don't have ayatollahs (supreme religious leaders) as Shi'ite Muslims do.
B. All communities, however, have religious functionaries and institutional structures.

Religions promise an inner peace and harmony despite the vicissitudes of life.
A. Discovering meaning that transcends physical existence enables people of faith to overcome the challenges posed by disease, evil, and injustice that permeate life and society.
B. The religions that have stood the test of time have offered hope and meaning that move beyond mere physical survival.

Religions typically offer a future hope through the coming of a new age or a better existence in the afterlife.
A. Most religions anticipate the coming of a gifted person (for example, the Jewish messiah, the Second Coming of Jesus, one final incarnation of the Hindu deity Vishnu, or one last manifestation of the Buddha) who will help usher in a new age of peace and tranquility.
B. The future hope may be realized in a new heaven or new Earth or a blissful existence beyond this physical life.

Religions must propagate themselves through the recruitment of new members and procreation within the community of faith.
A. Buddhism, Christianity, and Islam are the primary "missionary" religions in the world.
B. Most religions require marriage and procreation within the community as the primary source of new adherents.
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Old 01-21-2014, 11:01 PM   #113
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Old 01-21-2014, 11:03 PM   #114
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tl;dr
Copy pasta based on a convenient rationalization.
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Old 01-21-2014, 11:03 PM   #115
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As the New Testament defines faith (Hebrews 11:1), it clearly would not be an apt description of the beliefs of atheists:

"Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see. "
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Old 01-21-2014, 11:06 PM   #116
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tl;dr
We can take them one at a time. Discussion open as to how atheism displays the following characteristics:

Most religions include belief in the supernatural (spirits, gods, God) or belief in some other Ultimate Reality beyond, yet connected to, human experience and existence.
A. Hindus acknowledge 330 million gods and one Ultimate Reality, the Brahman, which is beyond all names and forms.
B. Christians consider themselves Monotheists, but Muslims reject the doctrine of the Trinity as a dangerous possible form of Polytheism.
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Old 01-21-2014, 11:08 PM   #117
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As the New Testament defines faith (Hebrews 11:1), it clearly would not be an apt description of the beliefs of atheists:

"Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see. "
You seem desperate to make the case that religion requires a deity. Yours doesn't.
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Old 01-21-2014, 11:14 PM   #118
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You seem desperate to make the case that religion requires a deity. Yours doesn't.
Religions share many characteristics. Which of these characteristics (note plural) does atheism share?
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Old 01-21-2014, 11:17 PM   #119
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We can take them one at a time. Discussion open as to how atheism displays the following characteristics:

Most religions include belief in the supernatural (spirits, gods, God) or belief in some other Ultimate Reality beyond, yet connected to, human experience and existence.
A. Hindus acknowledge 330 million gods and one Ultimate Reality, the Brahman, which is beyond all names and forms.
B. Christians consider themselves Monotheists, but Muslims reject the doctrine of the Trinity as a dangerous possible form of Polytheism.
Dude, I don't give a shit. I'm agnostic and I'm fine with it. I don't really give a shit what you believe, or anyone else for that matter. I was just commenting on the block of text that will likely not be read by most.
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Old 01-21-2014, 11:29 PM   #120
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Couldn't faith also be confidence, conviction, trust, in your own position to come to the conclusion something doesn't exist?
BINGO !

Bottom line: If the Christian misses on "his faith" and there is no God, oh well. But if the atheist misses on "his faith of no belief in God" and Jesus is God then 'oh nooooooooooooooo!!!

No other figurehead of any religion ever claimed to be God except Jesus. And no other figurehead of any religion ever said HE IS the ONLY WAY to get to heaven except Jesus, who said, "I am THE WAY, THE TRUTH and THE LIFE, no man comes to the Father BUT BY ME. Notice Jesus didn't say "a way" or "some way", "a truth or some truth" or "a life or some life" as if there were other options like the Oprah worldview of religion that many do believe. Jesus clearly left no wiggle room here. No other options PERIOD. And no other figurehead of any religion predicted how he would die and then be raised from the dead except Jesus.

Therefore everyone regardless of interest in Jesus or not must come to a decision as to who he really was and are his claims and resurrection true.

Was he a lunatic,liar or Lord as C.S. Lewis once asked as an atheist that ultimately led him to Christ after his exhaustive critical analysis of that very question ?
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