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Old 01-26-2014, 04:48 PM  
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White House warns Obama could go around Congress

http://news.yahoo.com/white-house-wa...-politics.html

WASHINGTON (AP) — President Barack Obama will work with Congress where he can and circumvent lawmakers where he must, his top advisers warned Sunday in previewing Tuesday's State of the Union speech.

Obama faces a politically divided Congress on Tuesday and will use his annual address to demand expanded economic opportunity. Absent legislative action, the White House is telling lawmakers that the president is ready to take unilateral action to close the gap between rich and poor Americans.

"I think the way we have to think about this year is we have a divided government," said Dan Pfeiffer, a longtime Obama adviser. "The Republican Congress is not going to rubber-stamp the president's agenda. The president is not going to sign the Republican Congress' agenda."

So the White House is eyeing compromise on some priorities, Obama advisers said. But the president is also looking at executive orders that can be enacted without Congress' approval.

"The president sees this as a year of action to work with Congress where he can and to bypass Congress where necessary," White House press secretary Jay Carney said.

The act-or-else posture bristled Republicans.

"The president has sort of hung out on the left and tried to get what he wants through the bureaucracy as opposed to moving to the political center," said Sen. Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, the GOP Senate leader.

Added Sen. Rand Paul, R-Ky.: "It sounds vaguely like a threat, and I think it also has a certain amount of arrogance."

With campaigns for November's election on the horizon, there's scant reason for the White House to be optimistic about Republican support for measures to revive a bipartisan immigration bill that has passed the Senate, an increased minimum wage or expanding prekindergarten programs.

Republicans looking to wrest control of the Senate and keep their majority in the House instead want to keep the focus on the struggling economy and Obama's stewardship of it. The GOP is pinning hopes that voter frustration remains high and punishes Democrats on the ballot for Obama's tenure.

"His economic policies are not working," said Sen. Ted Cruz, R-Texas.

The White House has been signaling to Republicans that it would not wait for Congress to act. It also is betting Obama's backers will rally behind his plans.

"When American jobs and livelihoods depend on getting something done, he will not wait for Congress," Pfeiffer wrote in an email to Obama supporters Saturday.

Following the speech, Obama will travel to Maryland, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Tennessee to promote the proposals he introduces Tuesday evening.

Pfeiffer appeared on CNN's "State of the Union" and "Fox News Sunday." Carney spoke with ABC's "This Week." McConnell was interviewed on Fox. Paul spoke with CNN and NBC's "Meet the Press." Cruz spoke to CBS' "Face the Nation."
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Old 01-27-2014, 03:46 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
I don't think our representative republic works to promote democracy that likes saying they're the same thing. They have different meanings but sound similar. It's simply representational but that's not democracy strictly speaking.
Which is why I always qualify it with the word indirect.
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Old 01-27-2014, 03:47 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by alnorth View Post
Oh, for crying out loud. Didn't we just have this argument? Everyone but the nuttiest of nutjobs understands that executive orders don't mean a whole hell of a lot, do we really need to copy-paste several long posts here?
It depends on the EO. Some do bypass congressional intent like what Obama did to welfare. Now we have the guns issue in regulations regarding health care such as on mental health issues. That's just a back door approach and few know about it--even congress.
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Old 01-27-2014, 03:47 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by alnorth View Post
No, obviously not, that is ridiculous.

Do you know what an executive order is?
Yes.
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Old 01-27-2014, 03:47 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post
Which is why I always qualify it with the word indirect.
Which is why I pointed out how that meaningless since democracy is majority rule too.
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Old 01-27-2014, 03:47 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post
I added to save keystrokes.
Direct vs. indirect doesn't account for the mediating effect of our constitution. Even in an indirect democracy with representatives casting our ballots for us we would just have a more efficient system of mob rule.
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Old 01-27-2014, 03:54 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post
Yes.
Since you asked if he would raise taxes by EO, I don't think you do.
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Old 01-27-2014, 03:54 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
I don't think our representative republic works to promote democracy that likes saying they're the same thing. They have different meanings but sound similar. It's simply representational but that's not democracy strictly speaking.
Our representatives are supposed to represent the will of their constituents. In this sense it is perfectly acceptable for them to vote in particular ways that reflect the majority of the people that they represent. In this way they are promoting democracy. They are still bound by constitution based law that protects minorities, which means that they will occasionally vote in ways that benefit the minority over the majority. That is perfectly acceptable because in doing this they are staying true to our republic.
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Old 01-27-2014, 03:55 PM   #83
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From some business investors who must be "fringe"

Indeed, as we celebrate Tuesday the 226th anniversary of the signing of the Constitution, all Americans ought to reflect on Benjamin Franklin's reply on being asked, regarding the miracle in Philadelphia, "What have we got — a republic or a monarchy?"

"A republic," he declared, "if you can keep it."

In fact, the United States is and always has been a republic, not a democracy. When saluting Old Glory, Americans pledge allegiance to the flag — and the republic for which it stands.

At the Constitutional Convention of 1787, the framers established a government alla romana antica. Eschewing the fractious democracies of the Greek city-states, the Founding Fathers chose as their model the stable, freedom-loving res publica that arose on Italian soil centuries before the birth of Jesus Christ.

Jefferson, Madison, Franklin and Adams had long agitated for a nation of laws, not a wild and wooly polity of men. Just as a tyrannical British monarch had violated the unalienable rights of the American colonists, so too could an unrestrained democracy descend into tyranny. [unrestrained here does not mean direct votes by the people Donger, it means stomping on rights of the minority should majority rule win the day]

The founders wanted a sinewy republic predicated on mixed government, the separation of powers, and the principle of checks and balances.

Read More At Investor's Business Daily: http://news.investors.com/ibd-editor...#ixzz2rjil0zWf

That mixed govt has features of democracy in it and features of aristocracy and other things. It was very unique.
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Old 01-27-2014, 03:57 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
Our representatives are supposed to represent the will of their constituents. In this sense it is perfectly acceptable for them to vote in particular ways that reflect the majority of the people that they represent. In this way they are promoting democracy. They are still bound by constitution based law that protects minorities, which means that they will occasionally vote in ways that benefit the minority over the majority. That is perfectly acceptable because in doing this they are staying true to our republic.
I see that has having some democratic features which still doesn't make it a democracy. Plus, the lower down we go to local government it gets more democratic too.
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Old 01-27-2014, 03:57 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
Direct vs. indirect doesn't account for the mediating effect of our constitution. Even in an indirect democracy with representatives casting our ballots for us we would just have a more efficient system of mob rule.
That isn't my definition of indirect democracy, if that is indeed your's.
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Old 01-27-2014, 03:59 PM   #86
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Since you asked if he would raise taxes by EO, I don't think you do.
Well, unless I missed it, how exactly would Obama use EOs to lower the income gap? I asked that earlier.

He's apparently threatening to do just that.
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Old 01-27-2014, 04:00 PM   #87
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That isn't my definition of indirect democracy, if that is indeed your's.
Well, his is accurate and your's isn't. It's not a matter of who's definition is who's. People in the 19th century had a more accurate idea of what this all meant and the dictionary reflected it. Even the military defined it differently. It's not surprising that dictionaries started using a changed definition after it was misused so often by people--thanks to the progressive movement and socialists in our midst. Those cats alter the meanings of words intentionally.
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Old 01-27-2014, 04:00 PM   #88
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I see that has having some democratic features which still doesn't make it a democracy. Plus, the lower down we go to local government it gets more democratic too.
I don't disagree with you. Our nation has never been a democracy. I consider the USCON our founding document, and it was established by elected officials who created a system more complex than mob rule. It wasn't signed by every citizen in the country and it didn't need to be.
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Old 01-27-2014, 04:07 PM   #89
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Got what you said listo. Also, democracy does not lead to freedom either.

BTW, to back up an earlier post as to how our military used to define democracy. . S. Army Training Manual No. 2000-25:

"Democracy, n.:
  • A government of the masses.
  • Authority derived through mass meeting or any other form of
    direct expression.
  • Results in mobocracy.
  • Attitude toward property is communistic... negating property rights.
  • Attitude toward law is that the will of the majority shall regulate,
    whether it is based upon deliberation or governed by passion, prejudice,
    and impulse, without restraint or regard to consequences.
  • Result is demagogism, license, agitation, discontent, [chaos]."


http://quotes.liberty-tree.ca/quote_...-25.Quote.7CCA
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Old 01-27-2014, 04:11 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Got what you said listo. Also, democracy does not lead to freedom either.

BTW, to back up an earlier post as to how our military used to define democracy. . S. Army Training Manual No. 2000-25:

"Democracy, n.:
  • A government of the masses.
  • Authority derived through mass meeting or any other form of
    direct expression.
  • Results in mobocracy.
  • Attitude toward property is communistic... negating property rights.
  • Attitude toward law is that the will of the majority shall regulate,
    whether it is based upon deliberation or governed by passion, prejudice,
    and impulse, without restraint or regard to consequences.
  • Result is demagogism, license, agitation, discontent, [chaos]."


http://quotes.liberty-tree.ca/quote_...-25.Quote.7CCA
You DO realize how comical it is for you to even be in this conversation, right?
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