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Old 01-28-2014, 09:50 AM  
Msmith Msmith is offline
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Minimum wage will go up to $10.10 according to the Prez

It is only for new federal government contracts for services, like janitors and construction workers. What happens to the $15 minimum wage the fast food workers want?

Link: http://news.yahoo.com/obama-orders-m...010928340.html
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Old 02-16-2014, 08:43 PM   #91
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There might not be anything I hate more than a minimum wage law. Ive always been fascinated why people care that an unskilled worker has to make a certain amount of money. The market, region, and an individual's job skills should be the only thing that matters. If I want to hire some swingin dick to clean my bathrooms for 3 dollars an hour I should be able to do it. If he doesn't like cleaning toilets for 3 dollars an hour he might want to increase the value of his work product and or his value to the market by gaining more job skills
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Old 02-17-2014, 07:42 AM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iowanian View Post
My wages haven't stagnated, and in fact have made significant gains.
Why is that? It's because I worked shit jobs to acquire an education and have done many jobs considered "beneath" many people. I have acquired a skill set, I have worked my ass off to build a reputation in my industry that has put me in demand.

Minimum wage jobs are not careers, they are stepping stones. If someone isn't using it that way, they are the only ones to fault.

It baffles me as an employer and productive worker in addition to consumer that so many people can't understand how price points are set. I guarantee a chain reaction and I guarantee prices on goods and services will go up to offset the costs to businesses, especially small business. The impact to the employer goes beyond the actual wage increase, it also raises the tax burden of that employee on the employer as well as their cost to things like 401k. Raising the wage $3 probably will cost $5/hr more per employee.

It doesn't matter what the bottom wage is, because the person that wage will always be at the bottom of the financial food chain until they do something to change that.
We aren't trying to move them off the bottom.

Try to understand the conversation.

It's about ensuring they have a wage to participate in the economy without government welfare.

Its about increasing demand for goods and services to create jobs.

You have absolutely no idea how wages work if you think a raise of 3 dollars will cost 5.

Here are some studies for you.

Educate yourself.

Why Does the Minimum Wage Have No Discernible Effect on Employment?
http://www.cepr.net/documents/public...ge-2013-02.pdf

Do Minimum Wages Really Reduce Teen Employment?
http://www.irle.berkeley.edu/workingpapers/166-08.pdf

Minimum Wage Effects Across State Borders
http://www.irle.berkeley.edu/workingpapers/157-07.pdf

Raising the Federal Minimum Wage to $10.10 Would Give Working Families, and the Overall Economy, a Much-Needed Boost.

Summary: An analysis by the Economic Policy Institute shows that the Fair Minimum Wage Act of 2013, which would raise the federal minimum wage to $10.10 per hour and index it to inflation, would generate more than $30 billion in new economic activity and support the creation of 140,000 new full-time jobs as businesses expand to meet increased consumer deman

http://www.epi.org/files/2013/bp357-...e-increase.pdf

Minimum Wages and Employment: A Case Study of the Fast-Food Industry in New Jersey and Pennsylvania: Reply

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc...=rep1&type=pdf
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Old 02-17-2014, 07:46 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by loochy View Post
How dare you improve yourself. Don't you know that you are supposed to be stuck in a hole that you can't emerge from?
And how dare we try to help those at the bottom who are trying to improve themselves.

They shouldn't get a wage that will allow them to save money.

They should get a wage that allows them to get food stamps.

Because it is real easy to improve yourself when you make so little you get food stamps.

Real easy to afford community college and find the time to go when your job can't even feed you.
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Old 02-17-2014, 07:55 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
We aren't trying to move them off the bottom.

Try to understand the conversation.

It's about ensuring they have a wage to participate in the economy with government welfare.

Its about increasing demand for goods and services to create jobs.

You have absolutely no idea how wages work if you think a raise of 3 dollars will cost 5.

Here are some studies for you.

Educate yourself.

Why Does the Minimum Wage Have No Discernible Effect on Employment?
http://www.cepr.net/documents/public...ge-2013-02.pdf

Do Minimum Wages Really Reduce Teen Employment?
http://www.irle.berkeley.edu/workingpapers/166-08.pdf

Minimum Wage Effects Across State Borders
http://www.irle.berkeley.edu/workingpapers/157-07.pdf

Raising the Federal Minimum Wage to $10.10 Would Give Working Families, and the Overall Economy, a Much-Needed Boost.

Summary: An analysis by the Economic Policy Institute shows that the Fair Minimum Wage Act of 2013, which would raise the federal minimum wage to $10.10 per hour and index it to inflation, would generate more than $30 billion in new economic activity and support the creation of 140,000 new full-time jobs as businesses expand to meet increased consumer deman

http://www.epi.org/files/2013/bp357-...e-increase.pdf

Minimum Wages and Employment: A Case Study of the Fast-Food Industry in New Jersey and Pennsylvania: Reply

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc...=rep1&type=pdf
I don't think you understood what he was saying. Provided that the employee receives benefits it is plausible a raise of $3/hour will cost $5/hour more per employee (probably more in the range of $4.00 though).

A typical benefit load for an employee is anywhere from 25-40%. At $3/hour you're looking at $0.75 to $1.20 an hour tacked onto that $3/hour raise in actual cost to the employer.

This means I will raise prices, lower sizing of the goods I sell, cut back on benefits, or cut back on hours to maintain my profit margin. Your studies are most likely correct that it wouldn't have much of an effect on employment. However, it probably will do one (or more) of the items I listed above.
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Old 02-17-2014, 11:11 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
And how dare we try to help those at the bottom who are trying to improve themselves.

They shouldn't get a wage that will allow them to save money.

They should get a wage that allows them to get food stamps.

Because it is real easy to improve yourself when you make so little you get food stamps.

Real easy to afford community college and find the time to go when your job can't even feed you.
Nobody has a gun to their heads telling them to stick at a minimum wage job. Want better for your family and yourself? Then DO better for your family and yourself. God forbid people go out and feel good about pulling themselves up and changing their situations instead of letting an over extended government do it for them.

Anyone with any modicum of understanding should know that you just cannot support a family working for a single job paying minimum wage.
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Old 02-17-2014, 11:37 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by Bowser View Post
Nobody has a gun to their heads telling them to stick at a minimum wage job. Want better for your family and yourself? Then DO better for your family and yourself. God forbid people go out and feel good about pulling themselves up and changing their situations instead of letting an over extended government do it for them.

Anyone with any modicum of understanding should know that you just cannot support a family working for a single job paying minimum wage.
Nope. When you are poor you can't do anything. Don't you pay attention?
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Old 02-17-2014, 04:41 PM   #97
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Thanks for having enough cognitive brain activity to translate this brain-buster to the slower readers in the class.

As a business owner, I completely understand how a wage increase affects my budget. Increases in taxes, retirement contributions, workman's comp and any number of other expenses will be additional to that wage increase.

It's also laughable that people think if someone is making $10/hr that they'll no longer be on welfare. Best joke told in the thread.


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Originally Posted by AndChiefs View Post
I don't think you understood what he was saying. Provided that the employee receives benefits it is plausible a raise of $3/hour will cost $5/hour more per employee (probably more in the range of $4.00 though).

A typical benefit load for an employee is anywhere from 25-40%. At $3/hour you're looking at $0.75 to $1.20 an hour tacked onto that $3/hour raise in actual cost to the employer.

This means I will raise prices, lower sizing of the goods I sell, cut back on benefits, or cut back on hours to maintain my profit margin. Your studies are most likely correct that it wouldn't have much of an effect on employment. However, it probably will do one (or more) of the items I listed above.
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Old 02-18-2014, 07:37 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowser View Post
Nobody has a gun to their heads telling them to stick at a minimum wage job. Want better for your family and yourself? Then DO better for your family and yourself. God forbid people go out and feel good about pulling themselves up and changing their situations instead of letting an over extended government do it for them.

Anyone with any modicum of understanding should know that you just cannot support a family working for a single job paying minimum wage.
Yea, that whats I want, people to better themselves.

And they can't do that with jobs that require government assistance.

Really hard to save up or go to community college when you work two minimum wage jobs to meet the bills and still need food stamps.

Anyone who has any understand of American labor history knows that the minimum has supported a family before inflation erased it.

Why do you support jobs in your community that cost the tax payer money through the social safety net and don't allow people to better themselves?
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Old 02-18-2014, 07:55 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by AndChiefs View Post
I don't think you understood what he was saying. Provided that the employee receives benefits it is plausible a raise of $3/hour will cost $5/hour more per employee (probably more in the range of $4.00 though).

A typical benefit load for an employee is anywhere from 25-40%. At $3/hour you're looking at $0.75 to $1.20 an hour tacked onto that $3/hour raise in actual cost to the employer.

This means I will raise prices, lower sizing of the goods I sell, cut back on benefits, or cut back on hours to maintain my profit margin. Your studies are most likely correct that it wouldn't have much of an effect on employment. However, it probably will do one (or more) of the items I listed above.
Let's see, if you raise prices= less demand for your product, means less profit

Cut back on benefits - might not impact employment, but lowers demand for your jobs, meaning you may actually have to pay more to attract workers

cut back on hours = why are you employing more employers than needed to meet demand and why did it take a minimum wage increase to figure out your were overstaffed?

Also remember that wages are make up around 30 percent of total operating costs. So, I call b.s on most your numbers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iowanian View Post
Thanks for having enough cognitive brain activity to translate this brain-buster to the slower readers in the class.

As a business owner, I completely understand how a wage increase affects my budget. Increases in taxes, retirement contributions, workman's comp and any number of other expenses will be additional to that wage increase.

It's also laughable that people think if someone is making $10/hr that they'll no longer be on welfare. Best joke told in the thread.
Welfare is handing out based on poverty level.

10 dollars an hour would place a lot of families above poverty level.

So, do you have any actual evidence from what you are claiming? You know, from when minimum wage increased from 5.25 to 7.25.

Cause I can keep going.

The Effect of the Minimum Wage on Prices

http://ftp.iza.org/dp1072.pdf

Quote:
CONCLUSION
Despite the different methodologies, data periods and data sources, most studies found that a 10% US minimum wage increase raises food prices by no more than 4% and overall prices by no more than 0.4%. This is a small effect. Brown (1999, p. 2150) in his survey remarks, “the limited price data suggest that, if anything, prices rise after a minimum wage increase”.

The overall reading of the above evidence on price effects, together with the evidence in the literature on wages and employment effects is that the minimum wage increases the wages of the poor, does not destroy too many jobs, and does not raise prices by too much. This evidence is an important input to reconcile theory predictions of negative employment effect and the mixed empirical evidence of negative and non-negative employment effects in the literature. Empirical evidence of positive wage and price effects and non-negative employment effects is consistent with standard theory. This suggests that firms respond to minimum wage increases not by reducing production and employment, but by raising prices. This is indeed what is observed in practice, as documented by Converse et al. (1981), “The most common types of responses to the increase in the minimum wage were price increases and wage ripples. No single type of disemployment response was reported with nearly the frequency of these”.
So prices will go up, a very little bit, Within market tolerance and so small that the wage increase will stimulate the economy because the workers are earning more money overall.

Which is another thing you supply side conservatives forget.

Increase demand for your good and services from the increased spending money people will have.
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Old 02-18-2014, 09:10 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by Loneiguana View Post
Let's see, if you raise prices= less demand for your product, means less profit

Cut back on benefits - might not impact employment, but lowers demand for your jobs, meaning you may actually have to pay more to attract workers

cut back on hours = why are you employing more employers than needed to meet demand and why did it take a minimum wage increase to figure out your were overstaffed?

Also remember that wages are make up around 30 percent of total operating costs. So, I call b.s on most your numbers.
Let's go point by point.

Quote:
Let's see, if you raise prices= less demand for your product, means less profit
Less demand is likely, correct. A lot depends on elasticity and available substitutions. For example, gasoline isn't affected much by changing prices while McDonald's will be (people can just go to Burger King, Wendy's, etc.). Also, as your customers know that your expenses have gone up they are more likely to accept a small, one-time increase in pricing.

It's more likely that the business will lower their sizing of materials and hope you don't notice though. One of the sneakiest things I've seen is where a company will put out a product with a "bonus" amount. As an example, let's say a certain company sells a box of 50 sandwich bags. Expenses go up so they want to cut expenses rather than raise pricing. They will sell those 50 sandwich bags in a "bonus" box for a few months as 40 sandwich bags with a 25% "bonus" (50 total). After a few months they then simply remove the bonus. When you look at your old box of sandwich bags it clearly states that the 25% extra was a bonus so you don't even remember that six months ago the standard size was 50.

Quote:
Cut back on benefits - might not impact employment, but lowers demand for your jobs, meaning you may actually have to pay more to attract workers
In this 6% unemployment environment people will take anything just to work (I think I've seen you post nearly this exact statement).

But seriously, if you're already paying someone minimum wage you're already scraping the bottom of the barrel in candidates and while turnover is higher at this level it's also never hard to find someone to take the job.

Quote:
cut back on hours = why are you employing more employers than needed to meet demand and why did it take a minimum wage increase to figure out your were overstaffed?
Cutting back on hours could involve cutting your current full time employees (who receive benefits) to part-time (thus removing their benefits). The savings from not providing benefits can translate to another part-timer being hired. You created a "job" but everyone is worse off.

Lower pay also means less incentives for your employees to work harder. You might have always known you were overstaffed but let it go because you could pay less. Now that salaries have gone up you expect more from your employees. See companies like Costco and Trader Joe's who provide fewer positions at higher pay and still seem to run at a higher efficiency. I guarantee you that companies like Walmart notice those companies have fewer staff. You think they don't know they employ more than they probably have to (while still being completely inept at customer service)?

Quote:
Also remember that wages are make up around 30 percent of total operating costs. So, I call b.s on most your numbers.
This is quite possibly the dumbest statement I have ever read. For my statements, it doesn't matter whether wages are 2% of total operating costs or 98%. I'll explain this to you even more slowly I suppose.

Fact #1: Cost per employee per hour goes up $3.

Fact #2: If you provide benefits for employees the typical benefit load is 25-40% of hourly wages. While benefits averaged $9.61 and accounted for the
remaining 30.9 percent.
Source: http://www.bls.gov/news.release/ecec.nr0.htm

Fact #3: A $3 raise per hour translates to anywhere from $3.75-$4.20 per hour per employee.

No, labor is not their entire operating cost but that's not what anyone here is saying. It is a large variable cost that will affect the company in some way if it is artificially changed.

There is no room for equivocation here. These numbers are fact. They are not opinion. They are not Republican/Democrat/Socialist/Fascist/RINO or whatever you want to label them. I'm sorry you don't appear to be able to understand this.
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Old 02-18-2014, 01:18 PM   #101
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Old 02-18-2014, 05:47 PM   #102
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Crickets from the loons………CBO says Lone is full of shit. Only Cosmo, Native, Brock and Kotter agree with lone.
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Old 02-18-2014, 05:51 PM   #103
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Old 02-18-2014, 06:22 PM   #104
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They answered the wrong question /cosmo


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Old 02-18-2014, 07:33 PM   #105
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cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.
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